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I have a changeling goblin in the group, and for one of his abilities, he chose Glamours YS166. It seems like with the phrase

…use your Discipline or Deceit to oppose efforts to discover the veil. If the veil is discovered, it isn’t necessarily pierced — but the discoverer can tell that it’s there and that it’s wrong…

you now have an effect that's better than a wizard's veil. Even if detected, the observer doesn't know what's there, just that something is.

I know that a Wizard can do a lot more, so is more versatile, but I was just making sure that faeries are that much better in veils.

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I titled it this way specifically to try something from meta, i.e.… – SnakeDr68 Nov 24 '11 at 23:48
In the actual books veils/glamours come more naturally to some fae, just like they come more naturally to some wizards or focused practitioners. – DForck42 Nov 29 '11 at 22:06
up vote 3 down vote accepted


Faeries are better then Wizards in that Glamour is less expensive mechanically then Evocation + Thaumaturgy. Glamour does only a fraction of what a Wizard's powers can do, which is pretty much anything. Good thing Wizards get the Sight.

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I couldn't find anything in YS that states a wizard's veil is any different than a glamour veil in terms of its effects, they only seem to be different in the way they are created. (Not stronger the dark side is, only easier)

In any case, I'd assume that more shifts against the veil would give you more information about what's inside. Zero shifts would just tell about the presence of a veil while five or more shifts would effectively make it possible to see as if the veil never existed.

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On YS295, stats are shown for a Quick Veil. What makes it very much less than what was stated above is the description of the effect, i.e. "Spirit evocation, defensive block". A block is stated on YS210, blocks are specifically addressed, i.e. "If he meets or exceeds the block strength, the action resolves normally, with benefits for extra shifts if the roll beats the block strength by a wide margin." That flies in the face of the veil isn't necessarily pierced. – SnakeDr68 Nov 24 '11 at 23:47
Consider it a block against an Alertness check that would have a very low difficulty(low enough to skip) if it weren't for the veil-block. The veil increases the difficulty, and the more shifts, the more you see. – edgerunner Nov 25 '11 at 0:19
I know that I could consider a veil a block, but it doesn't state that a veil is a block in the rules, other than a wizard's veil. And blocks are all or nothing according to the rules. Before I make a ruling on it from my thoughts on the subject, I was looking for any sort of rules-based stance/rules interpretation. A faerie veil isn't referred to as a block, which is my problem with it, and I was wondering if I missed something. – SnakeDr68 Nov 25 '11 at 14:44
The DF books aren't really explicit about much, they leave a lot to interpolation. I haven't noticed anything that states a faerie veil is different in effect, they seem to be different only in the way they are made. – edgerunner Nov 26 '11 at 13:25
One of the things that made me even think about it is the fact that the novels do state that faeries are very good at veils. If they are the same as Wizard veils, i.e. just a block against discipline, they aren't good at all, as Wizards get shifts of power + discipline. That's why I've been playing it as in the books- better than a Wizard. But it's really effective, so I was just wondering. – SnakeDr68 Nov 26 '11 at 14:55

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