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I would like to play a level 6 hybrid Assassin/Rogue MC Warlock in the Thunderspire Labyrinth. The character summary is given below. I have the Shadow Walk[DDI] (SW) ability and also have Fleeting Ghost[DDI] (FG).

I would like to know if the following scenario is valid:

  • At the beginning of an encounter, I make a stealth check and hide.
  • I use FG to move up to an enemy without breaking stealth. As SW gives me concealment (partial), I perform a Stealth check to hide.
  • If hide was successful, I will have Combat advantage (CA) against the enemy of my choice. I then use my at-will standard action Sly Flourish[DDI] (DMG: 1d12 + 11 + 2d6).
  • On my next turn I move away 5 squares, perform a stealth check. Use Executioner's Noose[DDI] (DMG: 1d6 + 6 + 2d6; the 2d6 assumes there are two shrouds on the target).
  • Repeat.

PS: I would appreciate it if anyone has tips towards optimisations that I can perform.

====== Created UsingWizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder======

Drisdahun, level 6
Drow, Assassin/Rogue
Unseelie Agent Starting Feature Option: Hand crossbow
Hybrid Assassin Option: Hybrid Assassin Fortitude
Darkfire Option: Darkfire Charisma
Drow - Outcast (+2 to Perception)
Theme: Unseelie Agent

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 14, DEX 20, INT 8, WIS 10, CHA 17

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 13, DEX 17, INT 8, WIS 10, CHA 15


AC: 21 Fort: 16 Ref: 19 Will: 16
HP: 45 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 11

TRAINED SKILLS
Dungeoneering +8, Insight +8, Intimidate +13, Perception +10, Stealth +15, Thievery +13

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +8, Arcana +2, Athletics +3, Bluff +6, Diplomacy +6, Endurance +5, Heal +3, History +2, Nature +3, Religion +2, Streetwise +6

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Unseelie Agent Utility: Create Shadow-Wrought Weapon
Drow Racial Power: Darkfire
Assassin Feature: Assassin's Shroud
Warlock's Curse  Power: Warlock's Curse
Assassin Attack 1: Executioner's Noose
Rogue Attack 1: Sly Flourish
Assassin Attack 1: Gloom Thief
Assassin Attack 1: Targeted for Death
Rogue Utility 2: Fleeting Ghost
Rogue Attack 3: Low Slash
Rogue Attack 5: Go for the Eyes
Assassin Utility 6: Vanish

FEATS
Level 1: Student of Malediction
Level 2: Cursed Shadow
Level 4: Roguish Killer
Level 6: Versatile Duelist

ITEMS
Adventurer's Kit
Shadowdance Leather Armor +1 x1
Sunblade Blade of Annihilation +1 x1
Death Shroud Ki Focus +1 x1
Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier) x1
Gauntlets of Blood (heroic tier) x1
====== End ======
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This is what I was looking for :http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Invisible_(4e_Optimized_Character_Build). @BrianBallsun-Stanton Thanks to your tip I was able to find this. :D –  Samrat Roy Feb 21 '12 at 11:41
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3 Answers

up vote 2 down vote accepted

Some optimization, since the other answers cover the negative case well...

For stealth, consider "The rules of hidden club" as a fantastic discussion on how stealth actually works in D&D. You also cannot make a stealth check to hide at the beginning of an encounter because you're not a gnome nor have you taken a move action.

The trick you're looking for is shadow walk + cunning sneak for perma-stealth. Or, to allow for your specific goal, shadow walk + hidden sniper give gives you CA any time you have concealment.

You can get cunning sneak through hybrid talent, and shadow walk through accursed shadows. You may also want to consider the level 10 utility persistent tail.

Edit: Working off the "how can I optimize this" part of your question, I recommend:

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Drisdahun, level 6
Pixie, Rogue|Assassin
Fey Beast Tamer Starting Feature: Fey Beast Tamer Companion (Young Owlbear)
Hybrid Assassin: Hybrid Assassin Will
Hybrid Talent: Rogue Tactics (Hybrid)
Rogue Tactics (Hybrid): Cunning Sneak (Hybrid)
Background: Silent Hunter (Silent Hunter Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 13, Dex 20, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 18.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 13, Dex 17, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 15.


AC: 21 Fort: 15 Reflex: 20 Will: 19
HP: 44 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 11

TRAINED SKILLS
Perception +9, Dungeoneering +8, Streetwise +12, Stealth +16, Thievery +13, Bluff +12

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +8, Arcana +3, Diplomacy +7, Endurance +4, Heal +3, History +3, Insight +3, Intimidate +7, Nature +5, Religion +3, Athletics +2

FEATS
Level 1: Hybrid Talent
Level 2: Student of Malediction
Level 4: Cursed Shadow
Level 6: Ki Focus Expertise

POWERS
Hybrid at-will 1: Sly Flourish
Hybrid at-will 1: Executioner's Noose
Hybrid encounter 1: Shadow Darts
Hybrid daily 1: Targeted for Death
Hybrid utility 2: Cloak of Shades
Hybrid encounter 3: Low Slash
Hybrid daily 5: Compel the Craven
Hybrid utility 6: Pixie Invisibility

ITEMS
Bracers of Archery (heroic tier), Scavenger Bird Ki Focus +2, Hand Crossbow, Shadowdance Leather Armor +1, Collar of Recovery +1, Adventurer's Kit, Rapier
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

The first mistake is combining melee and range. While it works in theory, it's very hard to pull off in practice. The cunning sneak, shadow walk combo is solid, though a touch gimmicky.

Here, you flit around the edges of the battlefield and drop sly flourish while you build up sufficient shrouds on your primary target, then you drop your nova-encounter.

Ki focus powers all of your attacks so you save on implements. Pixie flight will come in real handy and be a fascinating way to play through the game. As a ranged scout/striker who is tiny, you'll have all kinds of out-of-combat fun as well as in-combat. At the same time, your fey beast will provide a meatshield in combat so that you're not placing an undue load on your defender or leader.

DPR of this build:

`Sly Flourish: +13 v. AC / 1d6+13+2d6 = 80% accuracy, .75*(d(3,6)+13+2)+.05*(3*6+13+2+d(2,6))=21.12 = 3.40 round striker. Not particularly good, but above the 4 threshold so it works, especially with the stealth assets you bring.

And then you can dump 2-4 shrouds whenever appropriate on another mob, and then open as appropriate.

With more thought, I realized we were overthinking this. In the build above, you were using this whole complicated edifice to power stealth for combat advantage.

With the thief guide:

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 6
Drow, Thief
Fey Beast Tamer Starting Feature: Fey Beast Tamer Companion (Young Owlbear)
Background: Born Under a Bad Sign (Born Under a Bad Sign Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
S    tr 8, Con 13, Dex 20, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 16.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 13, Dex 17, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 15.


AC: 22 Fort: 15 Reflex: 21 Will: 17
HP: 57 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 14

TRAINED SKILLS
Stealth +15, Thievery +13, Athletics +7, Acrobatics +13, Bluff +11, Perception +8, Insight +8

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +3, Diplomacy +6, Dungeoneering +3, Endurance +4, Heal +3, History +3, Intimidate +8, Nature +3, Religion +3, Streetwise +6

FEATS
Level 1: Crossbow Expertise
Level 2: Backstabber
Level 4: Ruthless Hunter
Level 6: Two-Fisted Shooter

POWERS
Lolthtouched: Cloud of Darkness
Thief utility 1: Tactical Trick
Thief utility 1: Acrobat's Trick
Thief utility 2: Fleeting Ghost
Thief utility 4: Sneak's Trick
Thief utility 6: Chameleon

ITEMS
Rebounding Hand Crossbow +2, Magic Leather Armor +2, Bracers of the Perfect Shot (heroic tier), Hand Crossbow, Amulet of Protection +1
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

We get what you were working towards. First, with tactical trick, you get combat advantage against... anyone adjacent to an ally. You also get your full move with limited OAs, so you'll probably be able to find cover. With crossbow expertise, you ignore cover and superior cover and with two-fisted shooter you reload as free.

Therefore, every turn you can attack with CA, not dependent on a stealth roll.

Your DPR, counting your owlbear (who counts as an ally, BTW, and who can move when you take a move action, meaning you can target anyone you like with tactical trick): `+14 v. AC, 85% accuracy (counting perma-ca), 1d8+11+2d8 damage. with free RBA on crit) = 24.80 DPR. 2.90 round striker which puts you into the big leagues. With 2 uses of backstab and one rebound you'll hit every single turn (almost), and your DPR creeps ever higher.

You also get the stealth advantages from your build from sneak's trick, allowing you to sneak through deserted corridors (counts as cover) with impunity even if one enemy sees you because of chameleon. The melee version of this is even better due to the charge chassis it is built upon, but it doesn't seem the build you're trying to go for (and is sooo bloody boring).

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Your scenario will not work.

The Stealth rules say:

A creature can make a Stealth check against a target only if the creature has superior cover or total concealment against that target or if the creature is outside the target’s line of sight.

However, ShadowWalk only gives concealment, but not "total concealment".

The Shadowwalk ability only helps you 'remain hidden' if you got total concealment in some other way.

The creature doesn’t need superior cover, total concealment, or to stay outside line of sight, but it at least needs partial cover or partial concealment from a target to remain hidden. A hidden creature can’t use another creature as cover to remain hidden.

You should be able to replace "fleeting Ghost" with "Sneak's Trick" and then use Shadow Walk to do what you want to do.

Sneak's Trick:

Rogue Utility You fade into the shadows, moving with such precision that you can hide in even the barest scrap of cover. At-Will
Martial Move Action Personal Effect: You move up to your speed -2. At the end of this move, you can make a Stealth check to hide if you have any cover or concealment.

Published in Heroes of the Fallen Lands, page(s) 177.

Here are some other suggested skills and powers you might take to help you do what you want to do.

Chameleon:

Rogue Utility 6 You blend into your surroundings. At-Will
Martial Immediate Interrupt Personal Prerequisite: You must have training in Stealth. Trigger: You are hidden and lose cover or concealment against an enemy. Effect: You make a Stealth check. If your check beats the triggering enemy’s passive Perception, you remain hidden from it, and until the end of your next turn you can remain hidden from it without needing any cover or concealment.

Update (10/3/2011) Updated in Class Compendium.

Published in Player's Handbook, page(s) 120, Class Compendium.

Darting Shadow:

Assassin Utility 6 You leap from one hiding spot to the next, remaining hidden from view thanks to your mastery of shadow magic. At-Will Shadow Move Action Personal Requirement: You must be hidden. Effect: You move your speed. You remain hidden from each enemy against which you have cover, superior cover, concealment, or total concealment at the end of the movement.

Published in Dragon Magazine 379, page(s) 23.

I've only suggested skills that are At Will rather than encounter based. I'm not sure which level "Sneak's Trick" is, but if you can get that, I think it's your best bet.

This optimization might work better for you:

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Drisdahun, level 6
Drow, Assassin/Rogue
Hybrid Assassin Option: Hybrid Assassin Fortitude
Hybrid Talent Option: Rogue Tactics (Hybrid)
Rogue Tactics (Hybrid) Option: Cunning Sneak (Hybrid)
Unseelie Agent Starting Feature Option: Hand crossbow
Darkfire Option: Darkfire Charisma
Drow - Outcast (+2 to Perception)
Theme: Unseelie Agent

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 14, DEX 20, INT 8, WIS 10, CHA 17

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 13, DEX 17, INT 8, WIS 10, CHA 15


AC: 21 Fort: 17 Ref: 20 Will: 17
HP: 45 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 11

TRAINED SKILLS
Dungeoneering +8, Insight +8, Intimidate +13, Perception +10, Stealth +15, Thievery +13

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +8, Arcana +2, Athletics +3, Bluff +6, Diplomacy +6, Endurance +5, Heal +3, History +2, Nature +3, Religion +2, Streetwise +6

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Unseelie Agent Utility: Create Shadow-Wrought Weapon
Drow Racial Power: Darkfire
Assassin Feature: Assassin's Shroud
Warlock's Curse  Power: Warlock's Curse
Assassin Attack 1: Executioner's Noose
Rogue Attack 1: Sly Flourish
Assassin Attack 1: Gloom Thief
Assassin Attack 1: Targeted for Death
Drow Utility 2: Glimmering Forms
Unseelie Agent Attack 3: Cold Shadow Strike
Rogue Attack 5: Go for the Eyes
Drow Utility 6: Vanish from View

FEATS
Level 1: Hybrid Talent
Level 2: Student of Malediction
Level 4: Cursed Shadow
Level 6: Hidden Sniper

ITEMS
Shadowdance Leather Armor +1 x1
Adventurer's Kit
Death Shroud Ki Focus +1
Gauntlets of Blood (heroic tier) x1
Bracers of Archery (heroic tier) x1
Shielding Blade Short sword +1
Cape of the Mountebank +1 x1
====== End ======
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NO

It won't work how you imagined for several reasons.

  1. GMNoob already pointed out that Stealth[DDI] requires either Superior Cover or Total Concealment, neither of which is provided by Shadow Walk. This means that you need to be out-of-sight, invisible, or something similar to even be able to initiate Stealth at the beginning of the encounter.

    • [...]
      A creature can make a Stealth check against a target only if the creature has superior cover or total concealment against that target or if the creature is outside the target’s line of sight. Outside combat, the DM might allow a creature to make a Stealth check against a distracted target, even if the creature doesn’t have superior cover or total concealment and isn’t outside the target’s line of sight.
      [...]
  2. Shadow Walk only grants concealment if you move at least 3 squares from your starting position. Since it doesn't grant its benefit earlier you automatically lose the benefits of Stealth if you move even a single square with cover or concealment. So you would have to move those 3 squares while under the effect of cover or concealment before you can even approach your target and not break Stealth.

    • [...]
      Keep out of Sight: If the creature no longer has any cover or concealment from a target, it doesn’t remain hidden from the target. The creature doesn’t need superior cover, total concealment, or to stay outside line of sight, but it at least needs partial cover or partial concealment from a target to remain hidden. A hidden creature can’t use another creature as cover to remain hidden.
      [...]
  3. The moment you make your attack with Sly Flourish you automatically lose all benefits of Stealth when the action is finished. Stealth explicitly states that attacking breaks the hidden status.

    • [...]
      Don’t Attack: If the creature makes an attack, it doesn’t remain hidden.
    • Not Remaining Hidden: If the creature takes an action that causes it not to remain hidden, the creature retains the benefits of being hidden, such as combat advantage, until the action is resolved. The creature can’t become hidden again as part of that same action.

In order to to do what you suggested you would need a supplemental power or item that let's you become hidden again after making your attack. Since you moved more than 3 squares before your attack you already have concealment from SW, which makes it a much easier task to become hidden again.

My suggestion - after a very quick Compendium search - would be something along the lines of:

  • Shrouding Gloom[DDI]: Stealth utility 6, minor action, encounter; you can make a Stealth check to become hidden if you have only cover or concealment.

This would at least allow you to pull it off once per encounter without requiring much work on your character. I haven't looked at magic items so there may be additional options you could use.

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