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World Serpents Grasp

Whenever you hit a slowed or immobilized target with an attack, you can knock it prone


you are immobilized (among others)

The DM maintains that WSG does not trigger in the case. What say You?

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I would say that it's really a DM discretion thing, but it definitely seems to point for it. The reason the GM may be saying no is that there's not a reason for the restrainee to be falling prone-if he's in someone's grasp, for example. That said, I think the rules state that it should knock them prone; maybe there could be a question of whether or not the restrainer will let the character be knocked prone (Strength check?). – Kyle Willey Mar 23 '12 at 4:42
@PatLudwig - restrained doesn't actually include immobilized...newb – Pat Ludwig Mar 29 '12 at 19:32

This question is reminiscent of one previously answered:

Can a creature immune to Immobilized walk away from a creature grabbing it?


The Rules Compendium, page 229:

No Degrees of Effect: Conditions don't have degrees of effect: either a creature has a condition or it doesn't

While the Battlemind is preventing the Immobilized condition, it is not preventing the Grabbed condition. Since we can't split the Grabbed condition up and only apply part of it, the Battlemind must stay Immobilized as well.

The same standard seems to apply: Restrained is not Immobilized and thus is not a valid condition.

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The proper definition of Restrained does not include Immobilized or Slow in any way and therefore World Serpent's Grasp will not trigger.

A Restrained creature:

  • can’t move, unless it teleports. It can’t even be pulled, pushed, or slid.
  • takes a -2 penalty to attack rolls
  • grants combat advantage.

The Rules Compendium (pg 233) goes on to note that

This condition is similar to the immobilized condition but it puts more restrictions on the creature's ability to attack or defend itself.

Based on this it would not be unreasonable to make a ruling that World Serpent's Grasp did affect restrained creatures, but it isn't supported within the rules as written and would be a house rule.

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mental note, always verify the text in cheat sheet handouts with the actual rules.....d0h – Pat Ludwig Mar 29 '12 at 19:30
gah, /me should have looked at actual rules :). – wax eagle Mar 29 '12 at 20:10
Sure, go ahead and make yours sound better than mine. I'm still countin' it! – Trey Kirk Mar 29 '12 at 20:16

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