Tell me more ×
Role-playing Games Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for gamemasters and players of tabletop, paper-and-pencil role-playing games. It's 100% free, no registration required.

The bard has always been a bit of an unusual class. One thing, though, that I've really enjoyed about the bard is that they get Exotic Weapon Proficiency (whip) for free.

However, after playing a bit in Pathfinder, I'm continually bewildered by how restrictive the whip is:

A whip deals no damage to any creature with an armor bonus of +1 or higher or a natural armor bonus of +3 or higher. The whip is treated as a melee weapon with 15-foot reach, though you don't threaten the area into which you can make an attack. In addition, unlike most other weapons with reach, you can use it against foes anywhere within your reach (including adjacent foes).

The rules are similar in D&D 3.5 / 3, if I recall correctly.

I understand that it is more of a strategic weapon, but in Pathfinder, they've made the whip a bit more useful in the sense that there are feats like Whip Mastery (No longer provoke attacks of opportunity, deal lethal damage, remove armor restriction) and Improved Whip Mastery (Threaten natural reach + 5), but it still seems extremely restrictive (considering any other class would have had to have to be Proficient with the whip, and have Weapon Focus (whip)).

In summary: effectively using the whip requires numerous feats, whips don't threaten, don't deal much damage (or any lethal damage), and provoke attacks of opportunity.

Why is the whip so restricted?

Thanks!

share|improve this question
You could always rely on the Scorpion Whip (from Ultime Combat) :) It is a light weapon, deals 1d4 lethal damage and provides a +2 bonus when making combat performance checks. – Erik Burigo May 17 '12 at 21:33
1  
Just an extra bit of data - clerics can also get access to the whip, if they worship Callistria. – YogoZuno May 17 '12 at 21:50
3  
Whoa, bard do get whip! I had never noticed this before. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. – lorimer May 18 '12 at 2:50

3 Answers

up vote 17 down vote accepted

To quote the 3.5 rulebook:

Because a whip can wrap around an enemy's leg or other limb, you can make a trip attack with it. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the whip to avoid being tripped.

When using a whip, you get a +2 bonus on opposed attack rolls made to disarm an opponent (including the roll to keep from being disarmed if the attack fails).

A 15 foot flank trip attack, where the bad-guy getting up provokes an attack of opportunity from the main fighter is incredibly powerful, even if you do no "damage".

These same rules are in Pathfinder (pgs 143-145). Whips are listed as disarm, nonlethal, trip weapons on the table on page on 143, then from 144-145:

Disarm: When you use a disarm weapon, you get a +2 bonus on Combat Maneuver Checks to disarm an enemy.

Nonlethal: These weapons deal nonlethal damage (see Chapter 8).

Trip: You can use a trip weapon to make trip attacks. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the weapon to avoid being tripped.

Again ... that trip attack is invaluable. The only "more broken" weapon is the spiked chain in 3.5, which does threaten the 10' reach and allows a trip attack, which means you get a free trip attack on bad-guy again when he tries to get up, along with your normal attacks once you trip him (one of my favorite characters ever was a Dwarf Fighter specializing in a spiked chain).

share|improve this answer
1  
It's also finessable... – YogoZuno May 17 '12 at 21:51
3  
Yup... high Dex + Spiked Chain + Finesse + Combat Reflexes + Improved Trip was a monster. – lorimer May 18 '12 at 2:49
1  
And with a human, you could get the prof plus Fin at level 1 with any class, Fighter gets Combat Reflexes...level 2 finished off the combo. – YogoZuno May 20 '12 at 9:00
2  
I don't think you can trip a character who's standing up. Since opportunity attacks resolve before the actual action, the character's still prone and, provided you use the opportunity attack to trip him, he then stands up normally. – Zachiel Aug 14 '12 at 0:18

Realism. Or, if you're a pedant, verisimilitude... Killing someone with a whip or even using one is a nontrivial operation in real life and Pathfinder, and 3e D&D from which it sprang, still considers some degree of simulation of the real world to be a virtue.

share|improve this answer
Indeed. Actually, the question is why whips are so intimidating in real life, since they really can't hurt you much unless you're tied up and being flogged. Is it the potential for being blinded? – cr0m May 22 '12 at 5:51

Because of balance

Reach is quite powerful, but the disadvantage that you need to be at distance weakens it substantially. The whip doesn't have this weakness, so I would assume the designers added the other restrictions for balance reasons.

If there was a weapon with 15 foot reach that could attack every square within that reach it would be a no-brainer - everyone outside of a few specialized builds would choose to fight with that weapon.

share|improve this answer
As I said in my answer, in 3.5 The Spiked Chain did exactly that with a 10' reach and had the trip mechanics. I often wonder why it wasn't significantly more popular. – goofdad May 17 '12 at 21:52
1  
The spiked chain is very popular for any tripping build in my experience. Still, tripping as diminishing returns with increasing levels, and you still need to multiple feats to make it worthwhile. – Mala May 17 '12 at 22:00
Wasn't significantly more popular? IME the spiked chain was so popular it came to represent everything people hated about 3e and Character Optimization--not least because the spiked chain was hardly a blip in fantasy literature outside of the occasional Chinese martial arts inspired campaign... until the designers made it the ultimate weapon. – cr0m May 22 '12 at 5:50
And you're not talking about the rope dart. 15' reach, lethal. – Zachiel Aug 14 '12 at 0:19

Your Answer

 
discard

By posting your answer, you agree to the privacy policy and terms of service.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.