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After combat has started will changes to your DEX stat (sufficent to change your dex bonus) change your initiative score?

Example:

Wizard Bob sees a goblin approaching and initiative is rolled; the goblin gets 10 and bob gets 9. The goblin closes and Bob casts Cat's Grace giving him +4 dex and therefore increasing his dex bonus by 2.

Is Bob's initiative now 11?

Interested in answers for both 3.5 and Pathfinder (but suspect the answer is the same)

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2 Answers

up vote 16 down vote accepted

No, initiative is used only to determine the initial order.

Initiative Checks: At the start of a battle, each combatant makes an initiative check. An initiative check is a Dexterity check. Each character applies his or her Dexterity modifier to the roll. Characters act in order, counting down from highest result to lowest. In every round that follows, the characters act in the same order (unless a character takes an action that results in his or her initiative changing; see Special Initiative Actions).

Your initiative is a check; one made at the beginning of combat. A later increase to dexterity no more alters your place in initiative than a change in strength alters the attacks or damage rolls you made the previous round.

And delaying or readying an action will change when in combat you go -- it really is just a check to see in what order everyone acts, and there is no special significance to the particular number after that.

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Funny, I would say, "Yes, but the initiative is used only to determine the initial order". Whether the Initiative modifier is changed doesn't really have an impact until the next Initiative Check, in which case it would use the new value. – Joshua Shane Liberman Sep 11 '12 at 18:29
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Well, within the context of the question "initiative" clearly means initiative count, not modifier. The text in the SRD is actually a little bit unclear here -- only the rules for delay and ready mention an "initiative count". – starwed Sep 11 '12 at 19:16
up vote 8 down vote

I'm not aware of any mention of this in the rules, so this answer is an answer sourced from my judgement.

No, it has no effect on your initiative.

Initiative in combat is a measure of who acts first at the beginning of combat. You roll once in combat for initiative, and then it's done. Your turn order in the middle of combat isn't based on your initiative modifier, it's based on that what happened in that first round.

Being weakened in combat doesn't retroactively affect who got the first shots in five minutes ago. Your initiative isn't affected by being knocked out then regaining consciousness, or being bound up with rope and effectively taken out of the fight altogether, and those are both things which should affect your initiative much more than just being weakened.

Since initiative is something that happened at the beginning of combat, anything which might modify a person's initiative modifier during combat has no affect on their turn order or their initiative. Their initiative has already been had, so there's nothing to modify anymore.

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Well, the should is covered by the fact that the initiative roll is based on dexterity. Is your argument ultimately that because everyone gets one turn per round, it doesn't matter about ordering and therefore changes to initiative aren't necessary? Because there are many situations when initiative ordering is absolutely important, for determining when to heal and who to heal, when to defend and when to attack. I don't think you've made a good argument in favour of keeping initiative fixed here. – ioanwigmore Sep 11 '12 at 12:23
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Yes, your initiative roll is based on dexterity - and you made that roll at the beginning of combat. That is the core of my argument. That established turn order, and then it's done. Being weakened slightly doesn't retroactively affect who got the first shots in five minutes ago. If it should affect it, why do you keep your initiative when you're knocked out? What does initiative even mean once you're bound in rope then struggling to break out? Nothing, there is nothing to affect. – Jonathan Hobbs Sep 11 '12 at 13:58
Ok, this is a better argument. I'd suggest you put those examples (unconsciousness, rope) in the answer to show that init is unaffected by default. – ioanwigmore Sep 11 '12 at 14:42

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