Tell me more ×
Role-playing Games Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for gamemasters and players of tabletop, paper-and-pencil role-playing games. It's 100% free, no registration required.

Some games include a clearly defined method for allowing players and GMs to opt not to roll in favor of accepting a certain minimum level of success. For example, Ubiquity has its "Take the Average" mechanic where players can opt to take a number of successes equal to half their die pool instead of rolling, and Storyteller allowed players to "Take the Auto" (1 success) when their die pools met or exceeded the target number.

In what game(s) did this type of option first appear?

share|improve this question
1  
The similar option in D&D is "taking 10", which AFAIK predated Ubiquity. But if it was in the original (V:tM) Storyteller system, that would far predate the d20 mechanic. – starwed Feb 13 at 2:34
1  
I can't confirm, but I'd be willing to bet cold hard cash that it was GURPS, which invented the idea of a skill system in the first place with Bunnies and Burrows. – Lord_Gareth Feb 13 at 2:48
@starwed - Yes, the original Storyteller employed this mechanic, and yes D&D's Take 10 predates Ubiquity. – Runeslinger Feb 13 at 3:15
@Lord_Gareth Does the skill system in B&B include a mechanic for trading the option to roll for a moderate success within a defined set of parameters? Bunnies & Burrows is credited with being the first attempt at a skill system, but was released through Fantasy Games Unlimited decades prior to being re-released in a GURPS version, is there a link between them other than this? – Runeslinger Feb 13 at 3:24
@Runeslinger I am sad to say that I don't know for sure; betting on GURPS is just a hunch of mine based on what I've gleaned from GURPS fans. – Lord_Gareth Feb 13 at 15:28
show 5 more comments

1 Answer

I can't pin it down definitively for you, but I can narrow down the field for you to 'no later than 1991'. Let's use the term 'Take 10' for what you're looking for, and have a closer look at some systems through the years, and see if we can find a time when it came into being.

I suspect that a dice pool mechanic was more likely to generate the idea of a 'trade-in roll for basic success' rule, and dice pool mechanics were not in common use until at least the late 80s. The d20 system is one notable exception to being a dice pool system with a Take 10 option, but in the case of d20, they fix the roll and not the result, unlike other examples. For this to work, there needs to be some meaning to 'you only just barely succeed', meaning you need opposed rolls of some sort, or degree of success.

The original Traveller system, which is the earliest skill-based system I have access to, written in 1977, features only a very rudimentary skill system. Certain rolls with high enough modifiers cannot fail, but there is no option to trade the roll for a minimal success. There are no degrees of success either.

Robotech RPG (1986, based on Palladium system) has no Take 10 - skills have to roll under a skill value, which can't go higher than 98%. Since the target number is always fixed, and there is only binary success, there is no meaningful way to add a 'Take 10' type of rule. I suspect the same would apply to any other 'roll-under-skill' system, such as Chaosium/Call of Cthulhu, 1e Twilight:2000 and Rolemaster.

Megatraveller, from 1987, also does not feature explicit, automatic success. Some tasks cannot fail, simply by virtue of the modifiers involved, but in theory, you still have to roll. MT has degrees of success, but still no 'Take 10' option (or would that be Take 7?)

The earliest version of Gurps I have access to (3rd ed, second printing, from 1989) mentions automatic success, but this is totally GM fiat. So long as the GM believes there is any chance of failure, a roll must be made, and a certain value on any roll is automatic failure. Again, I can find no mechanic for trading out a roll for a fixed result, and I see no reason why the rule would appear in earlier versions, but not later.

First ed Shadowrun, from 1989, has no concept of automatic successes, even though it does have degrees of success, and a dice pool mechanic.

Vampire the Masquerade 1st edition (1991) does feature automatic success, on p36.

share|improve this answer
1  
If I had access to early Ars Magica editions, I'd look at it. Many V:tM ideas were present in some form in Ars Magica. For me, it's someway a predecessor. – Flamma Feb 14 at 11:00
I only have 3rd ed Ars, which is dated 1996...too late. – YogoZuno Feb 14 at 11:19
If you're showing how different systems use the term to illuminate history, your answer could say that. It would improve its structure considerably to have a thesis statement. – SevenSidedDie Feb 14 at 16:00
@YogoZuno Now I'm on the same page, sorry - I've deleted my earlier comment. – Jonathan Hobbs Feb 14 at 18:53
@YogoZuno - Good revision! SR1e and Storyteller 1e mechanics were designed by the same person if I recall correctly, so an evolution from one to the next stands to reason. I am intrigued that this analysis seems to push the idea to having its genesis in Vampire. – Runeslinger Feb 15 at 0:14
show 4 more comments

Your Answer

 
discard

By posting your answer, you agree to the privacy policy and terms of service.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.