Role-playing Games Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for gamemasters and players of tabletop, paper-and-pencil role-playing games. Join them; it only takes a minute:

Sign up
Here's how it works:
  1. Anybody can ask a question
  2. Anybody can answer
  3. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top

This question already has an answer here:

I have a simple, yet complicated question regarding skill ranks and the initial trained bonus of +3. My question arose when one of my players stated that he was a Pale Master at level 5 because he had 8 ranks in Religion and qualified for the rest of the prerequisites. However, I am under the impression that you can only put a number of ranks in a skill that does not exceed total hit dice. The player then stated that he was able to get 8 ranks in Religion because of the +3 bonus. My question is: Does the +3 actually count as ranks even though they can exceed the total hit dice, or do they just count as a bonus that would fall under 'Misc Mod' on the character sheet?

share|improve this question

marked as duplicate by C. Ross Mar 27 '13 at 23:17

This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.

Hi Lost Echo, welcome to RPG.StackExchange! Please take a look at the About page. I've closed this excellent questions as duplicate because it's been asked before. – C. Ross Mar 27 '13 at 23:22

No. Only Ranks count as ranks, no other bonuses apply for qualification for "rank" pre-requisites.

The +3 bonus itself is a bonus not a skill rank.

In addition, each class has a number of favored skills, called class skills. It is easier for your character to become more proficient in these skills, as they represent part of his professional training and constant practice. You gain a +3 bonus on all class skills that you put ranks into. If you have more than one class and both grant you a class skill bonus, these bonuses do not stack.

Note that it says +3 bonus, not +3 skill ranks.

So; Only the ranks themselves count, indeed you don't even get the +3 bonus until you have one rank itself.

See also this question: What are class skills

share|improve this answer
Thank you very much for the clarification! – Lost Echo Mar 27 '13 at 22:50
Worth noting: for this exact reason, part of the conversion process for 3.5 to Pathfinder is to reduce the highest skill requirements on things by 3. – KRyan Mar 27 '13 at 23:06

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.