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I clearly understand how instant sympathetic casting functions, as sympathetic penalties apply in the same way that penalties are applied for changing the secondary Factors of the spell (Duration/targets/Etc. on spells where they are not marked as primary). Casting sympathetically would obviously apply the penalty identically.

Where I have a question is when you start looking at the rules for extended spellcasting, and it starts to raise some difficult points. This is doubly true when you remember the rule for extended actions in the Core Rulebook that states that the number of attempts on extended actions you can take is limited by your dice pool.

During extended spellcasting, all factors are treated equally, adding additional successes to the required total. There is not a listing specifically for sympathetic range adding successes however, despite it using an identical table to secondary factors on the penalty scales for instant casting. Do you continue to use penalties for extended sympathetic casting, identically to instant sympathetic casting? If so, does this mean that sympathetic "attacks" would almost certainly require disciple and lower level mages to resort to cabal level group rituals, since the sympathetic penalty would often reduce the extended casting based on the core rulebook extended action rule to a single attempt?

Is there a part of the sympathetic casting rules I'm missing from a book besides the core Awakening book?

Edit, Added Info: Rereading the Tome of the Mysteries I see that they clarified that it is the BASE action dice pool that determines the maximum number of attempts available to a Mage casting an extended spell. This changes things somewhat, so I felt it was useful to point this out, though the core question remains, do sympathetic penalties remain penalties when used during an extended casting, and if so what effects does it have on extended attack magic (Which is specifically mentioned in Tome of the Mysteries as often being Sympathetic, despite what seems like possibly tremendous penalties after all the bonuses and penalties are combined).

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Corrected the post. I'm working through the un-learning process of Ascension (Purple) and really solidly learning Awakening (Blue) still so I sometimes confuse the names. –  George Spiceland May 19 '13 at 22:21
    
It's all right; I saw you'd made the change so I deleted the comment. I'll be able to answer your question soon. –  Jadasc May 19 '13 at 22:51
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Given the complicated nature of the question(s), I'm going to break it up and answer it in pieces, not necessarily in the same order as it was presented.

Do you continue to use penalties for extended sympathetic casting, identically to instant sympathetic casting?

Yes. Sympathy isn't a spell factor like Area and Duration. Spell factors are optional ways for the caster to customize the effects of the spell, while sympathy is a penalty that makes it more difficult to make the magic happen due to a lack of connection with the target. It's a barrier to making the magic happen at all, as opposed to a nice extra that increases the difficulty.

This is doubly true when you remember the rule for extended actions in the Core Rulebook that states that the number of attempts on extended actions you can take is limited by your dice pool.

The World of Darkness states the limitation as equal to the character's Attribute + Skill total (p. 128).

...does this mean that sympathetic "attacks" would almost certainly require disciple and lower level mages to resort to cabal level group rituals...

Note that actual attack spells (ones that directly affect the Pattern of the target) require an additional Arcanum dot. So you can do bashing damage at Adept level, or lethal at Master level. Indirect attacks don't have this problem, which gives PCs an incentive to be creative. Indirect attacks also don't rely on Potency to determine how much damage they do (using Matter to drop a wall on someone through a scrying window is going to be treated the same way that any wall falling over would be), so if you can score a success or three, you're golden.

Sympathetic attack spells are generally bad ideas for other reasons, such as how they allow the target to counter-attack (even without possessing Space) and are always vulgar, no matter what. The lower average Potency is also going to make your attack very vulnerable to being counterspelled.

what effects does it have on extended attack magic (Which is specifically mentioned in Tome of the Mysteries as often being Sympathetic, despite what seems like possibly tremendous penalties after all the bonuses and penalties are combined).

Extended attack magic (almost always) has to be sympathetic, because no target is going to sit still for nine hours while you summon their death. The effect that the sympathy and ritual casting time rules have is to heavily discourage extended, sympathetic attacks. You aren't supposed to be able to instakill anybody you want from the privacy of your sanctum. At least, not unless you're a Master with high Gnosis.

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