Take the 2-minute tour ×
Role-playing Games Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for gamemasters and players of tabletop, paper-and-pencil role-playing games. It's 100% free, no registration required.

Suppose I have a human character who invested 5 levels on Wizard, 2 on Ur-priest(by appropriate feat chain), and 8 levels of Mystic Theurge, net level of 15. This allows you to cast spells as stated in 10th level Ur-priest Spells per day table. Now, assume that I leveled up, and I choose Mystic Theurge as the next level class. This makes me to look up Ur-priest table for Level 11, which does not exist. In this case, what happens to my divine spells per day? Does it continue to progress "in the same pattern", as Hellfire Blast progresses with Hellfire Warlock-Legacy Champion build? Does it stop and I only get Wizard spells per day? Or, isn't it allowed to do so?

I am totally aware that although the answer is "yes", it does not mean it means spells over 9th level will be granted to my character unless I take Improved Spell Capacity, which requires me to be epic. What I am curious is the progression of spells per day of existing spells.

P. S. Don't ask me how to satisfy the requirements. This is possible by combining Apprentice (Criminal), Iron Will and Great Fortitude as level-up feat, and Spell Focus (evil) as a Wizard bonus feat (RAW, it is a "Spell Focus" feat, anyway.)

share|improve this question
I'm afraid I don't understand your edit. Can you give us the two situations to differentiate between? –  Brian Ballsun-Stanton Jan 17 '14 at 9:58
@BrianBallsun-Stanton There are spell levels beyond 9th, primarily because of metamagic things. Improved Spell Capacity is supposed to net you these slots, while non-epic progression is not. I thought that my wording of the question may mislead to automatic progression to these "epic" spell levels. Instead, I would like to inquire the pure increment of non-epic spell slots, much like how 18th level Wizard obtains more 9th level slots. –  Arle Camille Jan 17 '14 at 10:17
Great Fortitude and Iron Will definitely do not meet the Ur-Priest’s requirement. –  KRyan Jan 17 '14 at 17:27
@KRyan So you mean there was error on the build, actually? Thanks, I will try finding more feasible build, and reflect it into the example ASAP. –  Arle Camille Jan 17 '14 at 18:08
@ArleCamille You shouldn’t edit it into the question if it will change the question. For the purposes of the question, we can just assume you’ve houseruled that point. –  KRyan Jan 17 '14 at 18:20

1 Answer 1

up vote 7 down vote accepted

This is undefined under the rules

Unfortunately, the rules don’t explicitly say.

  • Some argue that you simply cannot choose that class again, and therefore lose that benefit unless you have some other class to choose

  • Some argue that you should look for epic progression for class you’ve finished, and barring that should make one

  • Some think you just get as much as you can (improved Caster Level), and ignore the rest (additional/better spells per day/spells known)

Looking at the strict RAW, the first point seems to me to be mostly wishful thinking; the rules don’t ever actually say that you cannot choose a class that’s “finished,” and for that matter they don’t exactly even make it clear that you cannot take more levels than are listed in the table (look up some of the arguments about combining Hellfire Warlock and Legacy Champion, where this is hashed out in great detail).

Thus, the latter two seem more likely. I don’t like the epic rules and don’t think it’s a good idea to give out those effects early (or at all <.<), so I favor the last point. Furthermore, the special requirements of epic prestige classes lead me to believe you cannot get them before 21st level, no matter what you do. And unless the Epic Level Handbook is explicitly in play, those rules may not exist at all, so there may not be such a thing as an epic anything.

Note that, even if you do get the epic progression, it very likely won’t actually give you anything aside from improved caster level, since most epic progressions don’t and instead use bonus feats to grant you improved spellcasting. Even epic bonus feats require you to meet requirements, and that includes being an Epic character which you are not.

Anyway, ask your DM. Since your DM has already allowed Wizard 5/Ur-priest 2/Mystic Theurge 8, even though you don’t actually legally qualify, he’s clearly a very different DM than I, or any I have ever played under, so maybe he’ll let you get 10th level spells before you could ordinarily get 9ths. Why he’d allow that, I have no idea; I certainly wouldn’t. But based on what he’s already allowed, he just might.

share|improve this answer
Oh, basically that-both the error in my prerequisite and the ruling regarding my question-means I totally screwed up, because I was actually the (novice) DM, and that character was planned as a high-level nemesis, not a player character. To get rid of possible rule conflicts, I'd rather dip one level of another class which gives me a fortitude save to qualify, and stop progressing MT at 8th level to get levels of Archmage, rather than the problematic theoretical "ur-priest 11". Thank you for the answer, and pointing out the errors. –  Arle Camille Jan 17 '14 at 18:12
@ArleCamille A Wizard/Ur-Priest/Mystic Theurge is one of the most fantastically powerful builds you can have, particularly if you qualify as Wizard 5 and therefore get 9ths at 15th. You really, really do not want to introduce the concept of “getting spells early” into your campaign, unless you’re prepared to tell your players that it’s an exclusive privilege of the DM, because that way lies madness. Magic, particularly high-level magic, is phenomenally, unbelievably powerful in 3.5. –  KRyan Jan 17 '14 at 18:22

Your Answer


By posting your answer, you agree to the privacy policy and terms of service.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.