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Suppose you're playing an RPG with item creation rules that require you to spend experience points as part of creating the item, such as D&D or Numenera. Suppose further that your gaming group has house-ruled experience points out of the game and the GM tells everyone when to level up as befits the story.

How can you still make it cost the players something to create items, when they don't have experience points to pay up?

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Do you have any extra information for us to work with? Is this a situation where your GM did it and now isn't sure how item creation should work, or are you looking at system design & consequences of removing XP costs? –  Tridus Mar 14 at 17:38
    
@Tridus I am more looking at it from a system design perspective. –  Serpentine Cougar Mar 14 at 18:03
    
Reading the answers, an important question comes to my mind: why did you house ruled it? I ask because some suggested solutions can bring the same problem that made you get out the XP cost. –  Flamma Mar 18 at 23:20

5 Answers 5

up vote 7 down vote accepted

Several house rules can be used for crafting if experience points have been eliminated by another house rule.

  • Change the Experience Point Costs to Time
    In a time-sensitive game, this can be more hurtful than spending experience points. Addressing D&D 3.5 specifically, making every 200 XP of a magic item's creation cost add another day to its creation time means high-powered items take a long time to craft.

    In a deadline-oriented campaign (e.g. King: "You have 2 days to stop the apocalypse!" PC: "Um... could you make it three? I'm almost done with this wand"), high-powered item creation is essentially impossible, restricting PCs to the creation of the occasional trinket. In such a campaign, unless sometimes given long stretches of downtime (perhaps between adventures or via limited access to a time-dilated plane), players might feel cheated if they picked abilities allowing item creation.

  • Change the Experience Point Costs to Money
    In a stingy game, this can be more hurtful than spending experience points. Addressing D&D 3.5 specifically, making every 1 XP of a magic item's creation cost add 5 gps to its creation cost means high-powered items take a fortune to craft.

  • Combine Other Alternative Costs with Partial Crafting
    Use this option alongside expending another alternative resource (such as either of the ones above) and permit craftsmen to make items that are only partially functional or partially charged. Addressing D&D 3.5 specifically, calculating the cost of a partially-charged staff or wand is trivial, but an item that is normally usable a number of times per day might instead be usable only a number of times per week depending on how much of it has been completed (e.g. a half-finished cape of the mountebank (DMG 252) (10,080 gp; 1 lb.) functions 3/week but no more than 1/day). To be clear, this is risky. DMs should consider the implications seriously (e.g. PCs needing but 1 charge from the staff of dimensional lock save vast amounts of cash or time over crafting a fully-charged staff of dimensional lock), and items that function constantly should be required to be finished before they function at all lest rules quirks be exploited, but it's an option to include if other methods become too restrictive.

    A campaign could use of this and the previous two options (therefore time, money, and functionality), lending credence to the adage that craftsmen can make something good, fast, or cheap, but rarely more than 2 out of 3.

  • Distribute Experience Points That Can Only Be Spent
    Use the game's experience chart and determine an appropriate percentage of that amount that's free experience points for crafting. Addressing D&D 3.5 specifically, when a character gains a new level, subtract the amount of experience points needed to reach the next level, and distribute a percentage of that either immediately or upon gaining that next level (in the latter case, however, characters won't have crafting XP until level 2). I suggest somewhere between 1 and 10% is sufficient, although a series of homebrew feats could reasonably enable more, or house rules for those with multiple item creation feats would allow more (2% per item creation feat seems reasonable).


An Aside
My D&D 3.5 homebrew advancement rules (currently used in two ongoing campaigns, both over a year old) have players track the number of sessions in which their characters participate, gaining a level upon finishing participating in 6 sessions. A player can choose not to advance his character 1 session in exchange for 1/6 the experience points needed to advance from the character's current level to the next level; the player can then spend that XP on what his character needs it for (e.g. crafting magic items, casting spells). It's worked just fine. Although essentially a different way of handling of experience points (1 "point" per session and 6 needed to level up) instead of a wholesale elimination of experience points replaced by leveling up via DM fiat, I share because any DM who uses any kind of different method of experience point distribution (instead of by-the-book or level up by fiat) will need to determine how to deal with experience points as currency, and this is how I've been doing it.

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"Change the Experience Point Costs to Money" -- This is essentially what D&D 4e did. Crafting an item costs the same amount of gold (in terms of crafting materials, but that is generally handwaved away) as it would to buy the item. The advantage to item-creation, then, is versatility. (Craft a fire wand just before facing off against ice-creatures, rather than heading back to town and finding one for sale.) –  Brian S Mar 17 at 18:16

Players Give up something else of value

Giving up XP means you're not leveling and gaining access to spells, spell slots, feats, class features etc. By using xp to craft you are indirectly sacrificing these gains. Skip the middle-man and make players give up one of the above when they craft an item.

Players start with a limited number of crafting uses Each player only gets X times to craft items. This would need to be balanced by player crafted items leveling with players so it did not feel like a punishment.

Players lose other physical resources Gold/money being the most obvious cost, but other more intangible costs such as using up connections/favors could also apply.

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Whitehack provides my favorite answer to this question. Casting normal magic costs hitpoints. They heal. The crafting of magic items costs permanent hit points. They do not heal. But in that game, you reroll your HP every time you level (and only take the new value if it's greater).

This provides a per-level limitation which doesn't have the same mechanical profile as XP cost but it's similar and elegant enough that you might want to adopt it for another game.

ETA: It totally makes sense then, that a wise character (that is, one who has access to "miracles" (magic)) engaged in crafting items will attempt to actually create these items as she nears a level-up. Whether that character is then able to level up risk-free once their HP are depleted is a matter of luck and the GM's skill and agenda. I don't think this is likely to be a significant exploit because it has an "old-school" (I have qualms with using this term, but if you read generously I think we'll all be on the same page) ethos that I think bears on this issue in two way. First, if the players are crafty about manipulating the universe, then they deserve to reap benefits. Second, killing "monsters" produces a relatively minor portion of the XP that characters collect. Treasure looted from dungeons is the largest portion while "mission" rewards and vanquishing monsters each make up relatively small chunks. The GM has tremendous power in implementation though, so it's largely up to their preference and skill and the table's mode of operation. To provide a reliable risk-free source of rats (or similar xp-fountain) would, I think, be sloppy use of the game, under most circumstances.

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Don't.

This is probably the most cop-out of all cop-outs, but you could always just avoid the problem by not including the experience cost of crafting magical items at all. Rule it out, and allow wizards to pay the cost and build as many magical items as they wish.

Be careful in using this cop-out, since it will encourage mass-production of magical items (assuming you don't strictly enforce time constraints) or break the economy (if a wizard tries to pull something cheap like mass-producing 1,000 level 1 magic missle wands and selling them), though personally I'd question where a wizard can find a willing buyer for 1,000 magic missile wands realistically, but that's getting off-topic.

Long story short - if you think your group can be trusted, just do away with the EXP cost of crafting magical items.

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Pathfinder removed the XP costs from 3.5 crafting with no resulting downside or mass-production problems. Specific high level spell effects (permanency, restoration, resurrection) got some additional gp cost but that's it. Works fine. –  mxyzplk Mar 15 at 23:26
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This is the best answer for mature players. The major constraints are time and money anyway not XP. And players can't easily make a profit anyway since they can only sell at half price. Didn't you used to earn xp for making items back in the day (though it was much harder to craft then)? –  Simanos Mar 18 at 21:14
    
@mxyzplk nope, Pathfinder indeed has those problems. They solve them by suggesting DMs not allow crafting feats at all and disallowing them in society play. –  the dark wanderer Dec 10 at 5:22

If you want to be as mathematically close to core as possible but just don't want to tally up xp for encounters (who does?), simply keep track of how many points they spent of magic items this level, and when the time to level up comes, generate a random value to determine if they get that level. For example, it takes 3000xp to get to level 4 from level 3 (D&D 3.5). If the player spent 500xp on a magic item, they now have a (500/3000)=1/6 chance of not getting the next level. To be nicer of course, you could just make this a delay rather than a full denial, but personal experience says to not cut the xp cost. Players who are good sports won't intentionally try to break it, but it starts to not make sense why the world isn't full of cheep magic crap, and the cleric gets more and more tempted to start putting that 3000 extra gp into 60 cure light potions, and there is really no reason not to.

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What for? To waste 60 days? Since the DMG says players sell stuff at 50%, if you spend one day and 25 gp to make a 50gp potion, you still can only sell it for 25 gp. –  Simanos Mar 18 at 21:11

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