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A PC grapples an NPC. They remain in their own spaces because the NPC isn't pinned.

If a flaming sphere or an aggressive thundercloud were moved into the NPC's space, does the spell's effect affect only the NPC or does it affect both the NPC and the PC?

If the PC pinned the NPC (making them occupy the same space), would both be hit by the spell's effect?

Do the grappling PC and NPC make Reflex saving throws normally? Does the pinning PC and the pinned NPC make Reflex saving throws normally?

(Neither the question's PC nor NPC is the spell's controller.)

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  • \$\begingroup\$ Just to make sure: Besides the penalty to Dexterity from the condition grappled, I don't see any further reduction to a grappled or pinned creature's Reflex saving throws. (Although utterly immobilized creatures are often considered to have a Dexterity score of 0.) \$\endgroup\$
    – Hey I Can Chan
    Jul 4, 2015 at 3:33
  • \$\begingroup\$ Flaming Sphere is an AoE spell. It also affects the squares next to it. So, if it moves into the same square as the NPC, the PC would be affected regardless. You might want to edit that. Unless the PC has 10 ft arms ofcourse... \$\endgroup\$
    – Joninean
    Jul 4, 2015 at 7:10
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Joninean Both spells are among the handful that have an effect that's a 5-ft. diameter rather than radius. Neither targets a crosshairs (and aren't technically area spells). They're weird. \$\endgroup\$
    – Hey I Can Chan
    Jul 4, 2015 at 7:22
  • \$\begingroup\$ It affects the area of a 5 foot square (or hex) instead of a single creature (which could be larger). So I would consider it a area of effect spell. \$\endgroup\$
    – Fering
    Jul 4, 2015 at 15:23
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    \$\begingroup\$ When discussing spells, area has a specific mechanical meaning. Things are clearer to readers when game terms are used the way the game uses them. (Note that I preserved the nonstandard jargon in the question's title because describing the spell differently yet accurately would've made the title too long for a quick read.) \$\endgroup\$
    – Hey I Can Chan
    Jul 4, 2015 at 17:25

2 Answers 2

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If a flame sphere is moved on top of both characters, they both take damage. As damaging area spells don't make a difference between friend or foe (unless said so on the text).

The rule about a grapple trying to force the grappled target into a dangerous area doesn't apply here because the spell was moved by someone outside the grapple.

If a flaming sphere or an aggressive thundercloud were moved into the NPC's space, does the spell's effect affect only the NPC or does it affect both the NPC and the PC?

If the NPC is inside the effect's area but the PC is not, only the NPC takes damage. Both spells mentioned affect only a single square (5-foot diameter sphere), so anyone within 5-feet of the sphere should be safe, unless they move inside the spell area.

If the PC pinned the NPC (making them occupy the same space), would both be hit by the spell's effect?

Yes, they are both inside the effect, unless the text says it doesn't affect allies of the caster. Flaming sphere targets a single square, as i mentioned, and since the grappler and target are in the same square during a pin, they both are affected. Unless the grappler is larger than the target, which means the target occupies only one of the squares (or part of their area for huge vs large grapples, or larger creatures).

Do the grappling PC and NPC make Reflex saving throws normally?

Yes, grapple doesnt prevent you from making reflex checks. But you take a -2 on your reflex due to the -4 penalty on dex from the Grappled Condition. Though, if the spread or attack originate from the other side of the grapple, you do have cover and should benefit from a +2 on your AC and reflex saves.

Cover and Reflex Saves Cover grants you a +2 bonus on Reflex saves against attacks that originate or burst out from a point on the other side of the cover from you. Note that spread effects can extend around corners and thus negate this cover bonus.

Does the pinning PC and the pinned NPC make Reflex saving throws normally?

Same here, you can always roll your saves, even if paralyzed or unconcious, thought if you are paralyzed or helpless, you have 0 dex and take a -5 penalty. A Helpless target (unconcious, bound, paralyzed, sleeping) is still allowed a saving throw.

All saves are a reflection of ability, experience and sheer luck, and you are nearly always allowed to make a save to resist an effect.

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Pinning someone grants the following penalties:

  • Pinned Creature is unable to move.
  • Is denied their Dexterity bonus to AC ( but is not considered flat footed )
  • Takes an additional -4 to AC
  • Can use its actions as an attempt to free itself ( Grappler gets +5 CMD to continue a grapple )
  • Can take Verbal or Mental actions, but is unable to cast spells which require a Material or Somatic component.
  • Attempting to cast a spell while grappled requires a DC 10 + CMB + Spell Level check or the spell fails.

A Grappled creature always occupies a space adjacent to the grappler. A grappler during their turn can force a creature into a dangerous space, which gives the grappled creature a +4 Bonus on their check to escape a grapple. Or the spellcaster can place the spell effect in the square the creature is already occupying. Creatures affected by the spell roll their reflex saves as normal unless a spell stipulates otherwise.

Grappling flowcharts can be found here and here.

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