Timeline for Can a paladin use the Two-Weapon Fighting fighting style?
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| May 27, 2020 at 10:37 | comment | added | Peter Cordes | @PixelMaster: Right, but the sustained damage you put out while fishing will be lower. Unless you're fighting something with a high damage threshold, you're never just fishing for crits. I'm assuming that a character would choose to use weapons that also make sustained damage output possible, and not carry a pair of daggers to switch between that and another weapon. Although a dueling paladin with longsword 1d8 + 2 + str, or longsword + dagger for special occasions, could be possible. A dex paladin for good AC could maybe work. | |
| May 27, 2020 at 10:26 | comment | added | PixelMaster | if you're just fishing for crits, you can always use TWF even without the feat or the fighting style - the STR bonus on your offhand crits won't get doubled anyways. Admittedly, you can't use TWF if you're wielding a shield (doffing that takes some time). Ultimately, I think we can agree that both (TWF-Paladin and Defense-focused tank) are viable options if you build them right (e.g. including the Dual Wielder feat), and what you choose is mostly personal preference (and DM houseruling for the TWF paladin ^^). Discussing any more here will just get this conversation moved to chat :D | |
| May 27, 2020 at 10:25 | comment | added | Peter Cordes | TL:DR: This answer wasn't meant to be a guide on how to build or play paladins in general, just a look at some corner cases where TWF would make a difference. | |
| May 27, 2020 at 10:24 | comment | added | Peter Cordes | @PixelMaster: But yes, 100% agreed that Aura spells and other uses for spell slots are very important. I did mention in this answer saving your spell slots when you don't crit. But out of the spell slots you are going to turn into damage, dual wielding gives you more options. Overall it's probably not a good choice, especially when limited to 1d6 weapons (good point about needing a feat for 1d8 dual wield), but to be competitive when you're not doing a nova of Divine Smite, you do want that +dex damage from your off-hand, because then it's a significant fraction of your total damage. | |
| May 27, 2020 at 10:21 | comment | added | Peter Cordes | @PixelMaster: Casting Xyz Smite spells is a way to dump spell slots into damage faster, with less straight damage per spell level than Divine Smite (but with status effects), very similar to making an attack with a bonus action and using Divine Smite on that. If you cast Branding Smite for example, it doesn't matter whether that bonus damage is added to a greatsword hit or to a shortsword hit, it's still an extra 2d6. And you can also Divine Smite on that same hit. | |
| May 27, 2020 at 10:15 | comment | added | Peter Cordes | @PixelMaster: Agreed you don't normally want to dump all your spell slots into smite as fast as possible. So probably my point about fishing for crits is more relevant, to get more out of the spell slots you do spend. And yes, the opportunity cost in defense (rather than other offence options) is certainly an important tradeoff when considering TWF. But for those consider it, we should weigh it up against other straight-damage options like dueling or Greatweapon. | |
| May 27, 2020 at 10:10 | comment | added | PixelMaster | For example, an opponent with +8 to hit can hit the AC 18 paladin (two-weapon fighting, i.e. neither shield nor Defense fighting style) with a roll of 10 or higher, i.e. a 55% chance. Versus AC 21, this drops to 40% chance (13 or higher). Relatively speaking, this means he's roughly 30% less likely to hit you - that is very significant. And the lower the opponent's to-hit-bonus, the greater the benefit: with a +5 to hit, it's 40% vs 25%, or almost 40% less likely to be hit. If you get magic items, such as a Cloak of Protection or a Shield +1 (both just uncommon!), you get close to unhittable | |
| May 27, 2020 at 10:04 | comment | added | PixelMaster | Still, I don't think these benefits outweigh the benefits gained from other Fighting Styles, especially Defense; Paladins are not tanks the way Barbarians are, they can't tank as much with HP, but rather have to tank with their AC. And considering they typically wear heavy armor, they can get up to 21 AC with Plate Armor, a Shield and the Defense fighting style, even without magical items. Bear in mind that in these AC ranges, every AC more is significant - plus one AC doesn't just reduce your chance to be hit by 5%, it reduces it far more. [to be continued] | |
| May 27, 2020 at 10:00 | comment | added | PixelMaster | I don't think dishing out as many smites as possible as fast as possible is such a big deal; Paladins don't get that many spell slots anyways, and they are also going to want to use them for spells. The aura and smite spells that they gain are often quite powerful, and the smite spells only trigger once, i.e. multiple attacks don't grant benefits here. Sure, spells like Crusader's Mantle or Elemental Weapon benefit from more attacks, and more attacks increase the chance of hitting at all (i.e. giving you chances to smite). [to be continued] | |
| May 27, 2020 at 7:06 | history | answered | Peter Cordes | CC BY-SA 4.0 |