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Can a player with HiPs ignore the need to make a distraction or use bluff to avoid the observer having a clue on where they hide?

For example, at the start of their turn they declare to hide with HipS, then they move and do their actions, leaving the observer deceived on where the hidden player acutally is.

Someone hiding normally needs cover to hide if they are observed, Player Handbook 76 says that this player, if being observed, would need a bluff check or a diversion to hide to avoid the observers to know where they went to hide. Somone with HiPs (e.g. shadowdancer) can hide even if being observed.

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    \$\begingroup\$ This looks like at least two, maybe three, distinct questions. I've voted to close for "needs more focus", I recommend breaking this up into your (1) and (2,3). \$\endgroup\$
    – Thomas Markov
    Commented Mar 19, 2022 at 3:28
  • \$\begingroup\$ Thank you Thomas Markov for the comment, I am happy to break it into two if closed. I wrote these questions inside one to avoid spamming questions \$\endgroup\$
    – Digius
    Commented Mar 19, 2022 at 3:46
  • \$\begingroup\$ Hey I Can Chan, thank you for making me notice this in regards to part 2). I forgot that years ago we house ruled that the shadow should be at least half the size of the player hiding (as in the party we concluded that in reality there is no condition in which a minimial shadow would not exist). So I will need to rephrase the question. 3) this question is about the possibility to create shadow through objects close to you by casting light on yourself (the closer you are to the object the bigger the shadow would be \$\endgroup\$
    – Digius
    Commented Mar 19, 2022 at 6:06

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Hide in plain sight typically makes a diversion unnecessary

The skill Hide, in part, says, "If people are observing you, even casually, you can’t hide" (Player's Handbook 76). The prestige class shadowdancer at level 1 grants the supernatural ability hide in plain sight that, in part, says that the creature "can use the Hide skill even while being observed" (Dungeon Master's Guide 195, and this is virtually identical to the special ability of the same name of the prestige class assassin a few pages earlier).

I've never encountered in real life or electronically another reading of this part of hide in plain sight, and I struggled to even find a way to read the ability differently (see below). I've always played—and have always assumed others played—that the ability means that there's no need for shadowdancers first to make Bluff skill checks (opposed by observers' Sense Motive skill checks) to create diversions then make Hide skill checks to conceal themselves. Shadowdancers can just hide as long as they meet the remaining necessary requirements for the Hide skill modified by the hide in plain sight ability.

Keep in mind that there's more to sneaking up on foes and stabbing them in the face than just not being seen. While effectively invisible, a hider in plain sight isn't inaudible, for instance, so successful Move Silently skill checks will be needed to keep the creature's location secret. (According to the Rules Compendium (92), a hidden creature is effectively invisible to those from whom the creature is hidden—see here.)

On the other hand…

So far as I'm aware, nothing in the game prevents a creature from attempting a Hide skill check while the creature's observed; the attempt just normally fails. With that in mind, I guess it's possible to read that part of the hide in plain sight ability as dysfunctional. That is, sure, a shadowdancer can use the Hide skill while being observed, but, y'know, so can anyone, right? Thus everyone—shadowdancer, assassin, commoner, dragon, demon, monkey, or sandwich and with or without the hide in plain sight ability—will always be about as successful as you'd expect when trying to hide and someone's watching. (To be clear, usually that's not very successful.)

Even though I don't find this train of thought particularly compelling—to put it mildly—, it's not up to me to prevent readers that want to read that part of hide in plain sight as dysfunctional from reading it that way. Those readers do have both my sympathy and respect, though. I don't know of an RPG that's written with that degree of linguistic precision, so those readers will find the hobby's spine a constant source of disappointment; still, I appreciate readers who keep their standards high.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ thank you very much for your reply. I agree with you with the reading, an I don't want to make things more complicated. What it sounds is that interpreting that someone can hide full stop leaves the perception of the observer based on the description of the use of hide by the rogue. 1st case "I hide" "now I move north". 2nd case "I move north wile hiding". The second description may imply that the observer sees the rogue vanishing while moving in a direction, so they could imagine where the rogue would be (in the same way a rogue that hides behind a tree without using bluff. \$\endgroup\$
    – Digius
    Commented Mar 21, 2022 at 2:35
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Digius I'd argue that the game simply is not a very good stealth simulator. (Seriously, I have yet to find a game that's a good stealth simulator. You almost need facing therefore probably simultaneous turns.) The game wants folks killing folks out in the open, and complexity increases massively when one of those folks disappears, no matter the reason. That the game scatters its stealth rules across books doesn't help matters. \$\endgroup\$
    – Hey I Can Chan
    Commented Mar 21, 2022 at 2:47
  • \$\begingroup\$ I don't know of an RPG that's written with that degree of linguistic precision - There are very many of these games. They would be computer games, cRPGs in this case, where the programming language which implements the game's rules can certainly achieve such a degree of linguistic precision (and practically needs to, since they have to be interpreted by a computer). Design inconsistencies and omissions aside. \$\endgroup\$
    – martixy
    Commented Apr 18, 2022 at 15:17

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