When changing a PC's actions based on an aspect, is it better to Compel or Invoke for Effect?

Question

We had an interesting combat last night; the PC was a very tough Changeling in the back of a limo glamoured not to be visible, and he was attempting to protect another passenger in the back of the limo from his driver/bodyguard, who'd be ordered to kill his charge.

The driver forced the PC to jump through the partition between compartments in order to spoil his aim, making it obvious where he was, and then spit on him. The PC found out the hard way that he was in combat against a Red Court Infected! The saliva was effective in placing an aspect on the PC, Susceptible to Suggestion. The driver then performed an Invoke for Effect (YW106), as he said "Show Yourself," making the PC drop his glamour.

My question is, would that have been better (and more fairly) done as a compel against the aspect?

Answer 1

When I run the game, I generally see the difference between Invocation for Effect and Compel as the difference between The World At Large and The PCs.

Invocation for Effect generally makes something happen. I use Invocation for Effect on NPCs, as seen here, and on the environment.

Compels generally make a PC act or fail to act. I've used Compels both ways, depending on the situation. I find that they work just as well in a positive sense, "You have to chase the car with your girlfriend in it," is a fine Compel.

You'll note that in both cases, whatever it is takes place without a roll. They both create events, not just modifiers for events.

In your situation, I would call what happened a Compel, just because it applied to a PC. The NPC was due a free Tag, which deprived the PC of his FATE point, so I think you did the right thing...up to a point.

Since it was a Compel (in my book, because it was applied to a PC), the player should have had a chance to pay a FATE point to avoid it. No roll to resist, the PC already failed that roll when the Aspect was applied. But I find that player agency is too important to just steamroll - if the player had been willing to pay up, he could have fought that first suggestion. If the vamp wanted to try again, to push harder, as it were and to pay the FATE required, that would have been acceptable, too. And the player then has the choice to give in (and take the FATE point) or pay again to keep resisting.

The "Compel Auction" from SotC no longer exists in DFRPG, and I find that I don't miss it - you can use multiple rounds of pushing (as above) to get the same effect without the added bidding.

Answer 2

Note: I don't have DF - I'm answering based upon general knowledge of FATE - SOTC, LOA, Diaspora, SBA

Compels, generally, are for forcing a non-action: don't attack, don't act now, don't go there, don't pick that target.

Invoke for effect is more broad, and not exactly standard FATE, but is a better fit, and is itself a variation on a compel, anyway, when done to a PC.

Invoking for a penalty or bonus is more common, and standard FATE. But it requires a roll which is to be modified. Such as: A Leadership or Charm skill roll (or their DF equivalent) being given the +2 invocation bonus.

You didn't mishandle it; you did take a different option than I'd usually have taken, but so long as the player accepted the fate point for the invoke for effect, it's a done deal.

Answer 3

According to Your Story p. 106, when you invoke somebody else's aspect to make a declaration, you follow the same guidelines as invoking your own aspects for effect (p. 99).

You can also invoke an aspect for effect, using it to declare a fact or circumstance that would be of benefit to your character.

I would not rule that forcing another character to act is a “fact or circumstance” – dictating an action is a limitation, a kind of compel (p. 101). In Fate Core, it would be a decision-based compel.

Also, from the Fate Core Veterans’ Guide (p. 294):

You might have seen player-driven compels referred to as “invoking for effect.” We thought it was clearer to just call it a compel, no matter who initiates it.

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Some more details.

Based on the nature of the aspect, “Susceptible to Suggestion,” and the forceful suggestion to “Show Yourself,” I interpret this as limiting a character's choices (YS101, a decision-based compel in Fate Core):

If your character would normally have a number of choices in a particular situation and acting in accordance with his aspect is going to make more trouble for the character and limit those choices, that's grounds to compel the aspect.

If the aspect were instead related to counterspelling, or something else that could contrive a circumstance making the player visible, I'd still call that a complication rather than invoking for effect (YS101, an event-based compel in Fate Core):

If everything would be going along normally and the aspect makes things more difficult or introduces an unexpected twist, that's grounds for a compel.

I would only rule it as invoking for effect if the declaration is simply adding to the story without significantly complicating things for another player. I interpret invoking for effect as roughly equivalent to declaring a story detail in Fate Core (FC13):

For example, you might use this to narrate a convenient coincidence, like . . . showing up at a dramatically appropriate moment. . . . To do this, you'll spend a fate point. You should try to justify your story details by relating them to your aspects.

This is substantially similar to the example given on YS99 of arriving “at exactly the right moment, invoking your character's Perfect Timing or Grand Entrance aspect.”

Answer 4

I'd say the major difference here would be that a compel is offered to a player to accept or reject and an tag is just used to affect a roll after the fact. In your scene, both could have been used:

RCI tells the Changeling to show himself. This is a maneuver, with a resisted roll to place the aspect Suddenly visible on the Changeling. (Or to remove the aspect Hidden from prying eyes from him)

Before anybody rolls, RCI's player offers a fate point to the Changeling's player, compelling the Susceptible to Suggestion aspect, not to resist the suggestion. The Changeling's player has two options now: Accept the fate point and take the new aspect, or refuse to bend and give a fate point.

If the Changeling refuses (and gives a FP), then the dice are rolled. If RCI beats the Changeling, then the maneuver is successful and the Changeling gets the aspect. If the RCI misses the roll, then he can tag (for free, this is the first time) the Susceptible to Suggestion aspect to boost his roll by +2 or re-roll.

Edit: Fixed the terminology. You "invoke" your own aspects, and "tag" other aspects