7
\$\begingroup\$

If I'm not mistaken, when an outsider is killed, it's not really dead but banished to its home plane for a while. In our homebrew setting, my PC wants a specific outsider dead forever.

Is there way—preferably that does not involve performing any evil acts—to permanently dispatch an outsider like the devil my PC will soon confront? I want something that's ironclad, so a way that is legalistic and pedantic by the rules-as-written, please.

\$\endgroup\$
  • \$\begingroup\$ kill/destroy if possible. The devil really really pisssed of my character. But it is also for preventing him to hurt people , so make sur he does not come back in the next million years works too \$\endgroup\$ – anonyme May 28 '17 at 23:59
  • \$\begingroup\$ yes, i look for something by the rules \$\endgroup\$ – anonyme May 29 '17 at 0:17
  • 2
    \$\begingroup\$ Again, are you looking for something by the rules, are you looking for a legalistic and pedantic way by the rules? Both are by the rules, but only one uses the [rules-as-written] tag. \$\endgroup\$ – SevenSidedDie May 29 '17 at 0:59
  • 2
    \$\begingroup\$ Answers may differ significantly based on cosmology. Is the setting published or homebrew? \$\endgroup\$ – Hey I Can Chan May 29 '17 at 1:37
  • \$\begingroup\$ something legalistic and pedantic please. And it is an homebrew campaign. Is there anything in the rules or in the lore or in the monster manual about devil and evil outsider in general that gives us a way to permanently destroy one. And if it can't be achieved, how can I get rid of him for the longest duration ? \$\endgroup\$ – anonyme May 29 '17 at 8:42
7
\$\begingroup\$

Just like anyone else.

No, wait, hear me out, it's serious!

In Pathfinder, unless a creature is actually being summoned, in which it is not a real creature but a magical copy of them (depending on your setting), it can be killed permanently like any other creature. This is evidenced on the spells that are most likely used to bring them to the material plane, Planar Binding and Planar Ally.

And that is because both spells are from the Conjuration (Calling) school, which says:

Calling: a calling spell transports a creature from another plane to the plane you are on. The spell grants the creature the one-time ability to return to its plane of origin, although the spell may limit the circumstances under which this is possible. Creatures who are called actually die when they are killed; they do not disappear and reform, as do those brought by a summoning spell (see below). The duration of a calling spell is instantaneous, which means that the called creature can’t be dispelled.

You will see no mention of outsiders being unkillable on the rules about binding them.

Unless they are really powerful

So, unless this demon has some sort of Contingency or special ability saying it is sent back before it is killed, it dies. For instance, Demon Lords And Archdevils are mythic creatures, as such they are all immortal as they have 10 mythic ranks and at 9th they gain the Immortality mythic ability.

At 9th tier, if you are killed, you return to life 24 hours later, regardless of the condition of your body or the means by which you were killed. (...)

At 10th tier, you can be killed only by a coup de grace or critical hit made with an artifact.

Demons being unkillable is a thing that is a known trope in older d&d editions, specially sealing powerful demons.

But if this demon, in particular, is unkillable...

If, for whatever reason, mechanical or flavorwise, the creature cannot be killed outside of their home plane, enter the Devil's Key. A redeemed longsword that can permanently slay outsiders by plane shifting both the wielder and the outsider to the outsider's home plane, and once slain, they are permanently destroyed.

\$\endgroup\$
  • \$\begingroup\$ You might want to mention that 'like anybody else' means killing a human is also stupidly hard, not that killing a demon is easy. \$\endgroup\$ – the dark wanderer May 30 '17 at 6:26
  • \$\begingroup\$ The OP is not talking about being unnable to ressurrect, but be able to kill a creature that will not be killed due to a misconception that they teleport/planeshift to their native plane when killed on the material plane. Being unkillable is another topic and has several examples on this tvtrope. \$\endgroup\$ – ShadowKras May 30 '17 at 12:12
2
\$\begingroup\$

By the Pathfinder rules, an oustsider have no particular way not to die when you hit him very hard with a sword. Some may have one, but not your average devil or demon.

It is even reminded in the description or the planar ally spell:

Few if any creatures will accept a task that seems suicidal (remember, a called creature actually dies when it is killed, unlike a summoned creature).

Apparently your mistake comes from the Fiendish Codex 1 (page 9), which is a D&D book (not Pathfinder):

If a demon is killed on another plane, its body eventually returns to the Abyss

\$\endgroup\$
  • \$\begingroup\$ Could you address the (evident misconception or genuine issue) in the question; namely, in their cosmology, or according to their misconceptions, outsiders are banished, rather than die, when reduced to zero hp? \$\endgroup\$ – Thanuir May 29 '17 at 9:48
0
\$\begingroup\$

This answer will assume you want them really dead. This means things like killing them the normal way or even killing them the normal extra dead forever way aren't good enough because sooner or later someone's gonna come along and cast a True Resurrection on them, or a Wish followed by another Wish followed by a Freedom, it just might take a few billion years. If we want them really dead, we have to do better.

The easiest way to do this is to make use of the various permadeath effects scattered around the game system. Things like shoving its helpless body into a Sphere of Annihilation, a Bag of Devouring (but not the intelligent sort), or a Soul Gem and then using it. Unfortunately, all of these can be overcome by 'the direct intervention of a deity' so, while we're doing better, we're not quite there yet.

The only way I'm aware of to explicitly prevent the direct interference of a deity (besides Consecrate/Desecrate spam, which is vulnerable to eventual decay even when placed in an unfindable Astral location with mindless servitors at the scales we are looking at) from being able to revive a character is to kill the character, trap their soul in a soul gem, and feed it to one of the Four Horsemen. Unfortunately, there aren't a whole lot of ways to do that that aren't evil. You can probably get by with using Discern Location to figure out where each Horseman is, Wish to teleport yourself to them through any intervening planar barriers, a great number of attempts at the Scribe's Binding spell to make them a book for you to carry around and read and edit and such, and Sift to find the appropriate portions of the book quickly. You can then use your gained knowledge to permakill the other creature you wanted dead, or rewrite the Horsemen so that they will do so for you.

\$\endgroup\$
  • \$\begingroup\$ ah, indeed, my bad. So is just come back to the question of preventing ressurection ? Is the lead still block divination ? If it is the case i can just turn him to stone, lock him in a lead coffin and dump him into the cheapest demiplane i can make permanent. I wonder if i can use a creation spell to create a coffin. \$\endgroup\$ – anonyme May 30 '17 at 18:04
  • \$\begingroup\$ @anonyme if that is the case, consider using the spell Imprisonment. Locking him in a lead coffin while petrified in a hidden location has all the same vulnerabilities, only worse. For example, a single Wish could undo that plan, but it would take two Wishes and a casting of another 9th level spell, Freedom, to undo imprisonment. A scroll of Imprisonment costs only 9*17*25 = 3825 gp. \$\endgroup\$ – the dark wanderer May 30 '17 at 18:22
  • \$\begingroup\$ can i just give hime to an angel ? The should have some good jails for captured evils. \$\endgroup\$ – anonyme May 30 '17 at 19:15
  • \$\begingroup\$ @anonyme that's really beyond the scope of the question. \$\endgroup\$ – the dark wanderer May 30 '17 at 21:28

Your Answer

By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.