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I have a character that benefits greatly from the Run Like Hell dare, but I want to remake the character with less (or no) levels in gunslinger. How else can I gain that Dare?

Just the effects would be fine. Specifically, I'm interested in the ability to automatically detect the presence of enemies within 100 feet no matter what defensive measures those enemies possess. Also having an infinitely reusable grit point out of combat. The untyped bonus to movement speed isn't super necessary, but keeping dex to AC while running is preferable.

So, specifically, the effects I'm looking for are, in order of importance:

  • detect the presence of enemies within 100 feet no matter what defensive measures those enemies possess, usable at-will.
  • an infinitely reusable grit/panache/luck point out of combat.
  • retain Dex to AC while running
  • untyped bonus movement speed

My impression is that the Run Like Hell dare is the best way to cover all that, but accomplish it via alternative methods consuming less resources than 4 class levels yet without alternative access to the dare is acceptable.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ As far as I can tell, "Run Like Hell" does not grant any detection abilities, like the one listed. How're you defeating detection-defenses? \$\endgroup\$ – godskook Jun 22 '17 at 13:37
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    \$\begingroup\$ @godskook Its cheesy, but he's probably counting on constantly emptying his grit pool. If there's an enemy within 100ft, he won't regain 1 point from Run Like Hell. \$\endgroup\$ – Cellion Jun 22 '17 at 13:55
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Cellion, given that the ability is extroirdinary, and it doesn't grant explicit detection, the closest argument is that the Dare is non-functional and would require houseruling to make work any which way. \$\endgroup\$ – godskook Jun 22 '17 at 14:01
  • \$\begingroup\$ Yeah, this seems to be based on a faulty reading of the dare; context given the "daring acts and dares" section indicates this is meant to be a risky activity in an engagement and only would proc when you run away from some enemies in an actual encounter. \$\endgroup\$ – mxyzplk says reinstate Monica Jun 22 '17 at 16:17
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Cellion that is in fact exactly what I do. Our group agrees that that is clearly the way the deed works according the RAW, but discussion of the various objections to that and responses to those objecions aren't really germane to the problem I'm trying to solve here. \$\endgroup\$ – Please stop being evil Jun 22 '17 at 22:06
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There is no way of doing this.


As per the Dare rules:

A dare can be taken in place of one of the bonus feats a gunslinger or a swashbuckler gains at 4th level and every 4 levels thereafter.

There are exactly two ways of taking a dare: gaining 4 levels of gunslinger, or gaining 4 levels of swashbuckler (or some multiple of 4). No other classes can take dares.


Furthermore, there is nothing-- not even Run Like Hell-- that does what you want. Here's why:

1) The grit point you gain is not "infinitely reusable", outside of combat or no. Run Like Hell specifies that it only triggers the first time you're without 100 feet of the nearest enemy, so you can't regain any more grit until you run back into that radius. You could run back and forth across the magic 100-ft line, but of course it's unlikely the enemy will be staying in one place while you use your grit point over and over.

2) Your ability to "detect the presence of enemies within 100 feet no matter what defensive measures those enemies possess" seems to rely on your character knowing that he/she had just regained a grit point, which to me definitely seems like metagaming. Expect your GM to make some sort of rule disallowing this-- asking you to separate player knowledge from character knowledge, or specifying that you must be able to see the enemy, or something.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ Often there is additional material that allows access to things like this. Are you sure there's no feat/archetype/prestige class/etc that covers this? What sources have you checked? Please provide a little more support for that claim. Also your objections to the mechanism of the Dare are in error, but I'm not sure discussing that here is appropriate or helpful. \$\endgroup\$ – Please stop being evil Jun 22 '17 at 22:02
  • \$\begingroup\$ I checked the d20pfsrd and could find no reference to dares beyond this. There's a prestige class called darechaser which also uses a mechanic that it calls Dares, but they're unrelated. And on the contrary, I think the mechanics are completely relevant because it's why you're wanting to take it in the first place. What exactly is wrong about my objections? \$\endgroup\$ – PlutoThePlanet Jun 23 '17 at 14:12
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    \$\begingroup\$ 1) is just factually incorrect. That's not how dares work; they turn off when you get the grit point so each activation has its own first time. It doesn't really matter too much if you disagree-- that's the way it's working at present in this group, so that not being the what you read the text as saying (if, in fact, you think the text says something different, rather than just not liking what the text says) means your answer would just be limited to ways to acquire the dare rather than substitutes, with the caveat that you think the dare doesn't actually work that way and why. \$\endgroup\$ – Please stop being evil Jun 23 '17 at 18:39
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    \$\begingroup\$ This is, generally, what you've done, except you've put most of your emphasis on your objection to the mechanic, and only a very passing investigation into the actual matter itself. 2) is a baseless complaint about my playstyle. It's obvious from the question that this isn't a problem with this group, so being told to 'expect your GM...' is kind of insulting. You're normalizing a particular approach to ludonarrative cohesion and that approach does not, in my opinion, deserve the hegemony towards which you in this objection strive. \$\endgroup\$ – Please stop being evil Jun 23 '17 at 18:42

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