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Can I stack the enchantment bonus of a wish spell (aka raising one stat by +5) with the bonus from reading a Tome of Understanding (if it was made via a miracle) to raise the same stat?

Basically what I'm trying to do overall, is make an intelligent Tarrasque, who has Wizard class levels.

The purpose of this abomination is to serve as an end boss for a high level Mythic Campaign.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ Changed the title to more accurately reflect the actual question. \$\endgroup\$ – guildsbounty Jul 7 '17 at 13:52
  • \$\begingroup\$ @guildsbounty thank you i wasn't 100% sure how to best phrase that question. \$\endgroup\$ – Richard Fitzinwell Jul 7 '17 at 13:54
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Both effects grant inherent bonuses, and those won't stack.

However, your Tarrasque has 3 intelligence naturally and could obtain +5 from inherent bonuses, and another +6 from enhancement bonuses, for a total of 14 Int. You will simply have to figure out how to build a bandana (or headband) big enough to fit on its head.

To be honest, that is the simple way of making him intelligent, check this answer for several other possible bonuses you can obtain. But if your tarrasque is now intelligent enough to cast 4th level spells, he could dip into mindchemist to obtain a +4 alchemical bonus to his intelligence at cost of -2 to his strength (and now he has only 39 strength). If he is high enough level, he could even learn a Grand Cognatogen for +8 intelligence, or the Awakened Intellect discovery.

Since your tarrasque is also a mythic monster, remember that he gains a permanent untyped +2 to one ability score for every 2 mythic ranks he possess.

At 2nd rank and every 2 ranks thereafter, the monster gains a permanent +2 bonus to an ability score. If it has multiple bonuses, it can apply them to the same ability score or to different ability scores.

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    \$\begingroup\$ Oh lord think of the size of it, or how much material that will need to be used.... \$\endgroup\$ – Richard Fitzinwell Jul 7 '17 at 13:58
  • \$\begingroup\$ I added a note about alchemist because....Yeah, I don't have a reason, but the imagery of that is amusing. \$\endgroup\$ – ShadowKras Jul 7 '17 at 14:03
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    \$\begingroup\$ @RichardFitzinwell magic bandanas autonmatically resize (as most magic items do) to fit the intended wearer. \$\endgroup\$ – Zachiel Jul 8 '17 at 7:58
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To answer your problem rather than your question:

Basically what im trying to do overall is make an intelligent Tarrasque, who has Wizard Class levels.

The purpose of abomination is for an end boss for a high level Mythic Campaign.

Make your Tarrasque whatever you want: you are the DM and it's your world.

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As much as I'd love to see the stats for this thing...unfortunately same-type bonuses don't stack.

Both Wish and a Tome of Understanding provide an Inherent Bonus to your Int. And the Wish spell even has this quotation as part of the spell description

Note: An inherent bonus may not exceed +5 for a single ability score, and inherent bonuses to a particular ability score do not stack, so only the best one applies.

So, If you both use Wish and a Tome of Understanding...your Tarrasque is still only going to have a +5 to its Int.

Now...that's not to say you can't still make an Intelligent Tarrasque. An Intelligent spellcasting Tarrasque could feasibly have been the result of someone trying to abuse the Wish spell.

You may try to use a wish to produce greater effects than these, but doing so is dangerous. (The wish may pervert your intent into a literal but undesirable fulfillment or only a partial fulfillment, at the GM's discretion.)

So, if you had a sufficiently reckless NPC at some point in the past who made a very poorly phrased Wish, and the spell either turned him into a Tarrasque, or granted the existing one boosted Int and Wizard levels, or just created one out of nothing.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ Now can that inherent bonus be stacked with an enchantment bonus like a Headband Of Vast Intellect? Adding it up to a plus 11 to intelligence? \$\endgroup\$ – Richard Fitzinwell Jul 7 '17 at 13:52
  • \$\begingroup\$ @RichardFitzinwell Yes. Inherent Bonuses and Enchantment Bonuses do stack. You just need to find Bonuses to Int that are of differing types. \$\endgroup\$ – guildsbounty Jul 7 '17 at 13:53
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    \$\begingroup\$ @RichardFitzinwell This link may be helpful to you: It's a list of all the different Types of Bonus in Pathfinder: d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/glossary#TOC-Bonus Pick ones that a permanent, and go from there. \$\endgroup\$ – guildsbounty Jul 7 '17 at 13:55
  • \$\begingroup\$ So +5 for wish, +6 for the HB and +1 for every 4 class levels. Starting at a 3 could still make a pretty decent wizard. \$\endgroup\$ – Richard Fitzinwell Jul 7 '17 at 13:55
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RAW: no.

Wish grants an Inherent Bonus to stats, to a cap of +5 per stat. Miracle doesn't explicitly list that option, nor does it allow the duplication of Arcane spells of 9th level; even if it did (by GM fiat, if nothing else), it would still be an Inherent Bonus and, as such, wouldn't stack with other Inherent Bonuses (since they're the same type).

A Tome of Understanding similarly grants an Inherent Bonus to a stat. Again, since it's a typed bonus, the Inherent Bonus from a Tome and Wish (or, if available, Miracle) wouldn't stack with each other.

I also recall a hard cap of a +5 Inherent Bonus to a stat, but I can't find it now (it may be a holdover from 3.5).

As a GM, I'd be very wary of letting monsters use this combination, since I'd then feel compelled to let PCs do the same thing (expensive as it would be). On the other hand, as a campaign-ending boss monster, it could work.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ The "hard cap" of +5 that you are thinking of may be merely a practical cap, with no effect (to my knowledge) granting higher than a +5 inherent bonus. \$\endgroup\$ – izzetguildmage Jul 15 '17 at 4:44
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Actually, I have the same issue to some degree.

What you could do, is apply the +5 bonus, and a wizard creature template.

Something that's probably just as good, depending on the storyline you have, is a mythic jabberwock. It's every bit as lethal as tarrasque, just maximize it's HP and I might add the shadow creature + shadow lord template to it. I really like to murder PC's for the final fight...

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