# When are sorcery points calculated?

Since action economy is concurrent, I have an interesting issue.

I'm running a Bard 4/Sorc 3, and I have one 4th level spell slot. However my metamagic sorcery points only allow me to have up to 3 stored.

In order to maximize the effectiveness of my spell slot usage, when I'm at 0 sorcery points, I want to use the bonus action to burn the 4th level spell slot. This gives me 4 points back, however since I'm a Sorcerer level 3 I can't have 4 points banked.

So in order to not waste the 4th point when I burn that spell slot, I want to use it in the same turn by casting an Empowered spell. If I do this, and since actions are concurrent, I'll have used 1 point, and have 3 left over, which is fine because I can have up to 3 stored.

When answering, please consider that officially you can use a reaction during your action to counter a counter-spell with your own counter-spell and not interrupt your initial action. This demonstrates that the action economy is concurrent in 5e, removing any "stack" discussion from the equation.

• Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat. Jul 15, 2017 at 0:20
• Bonus actions are not reactions Jul 15, 2017 at 12:02

# The sorcery point limit always applies.

The scenario proposed in the question doesn't work; you never have an "extra" point to spend.

The rule for sorcery points is straightforward:

You can never have more sorcery points than shown on the table for your level.

If you are a third-level sorcerer, and you have zero sorcery points, when you use a bonus action to convert a 4th-level spell to sorcery points, you have three sorcery points. 'Never' means never; the rule doesn't say "at the end of your turn" or anything like that; it simply says 'never'. You therefore can't "float" the extra point to simultaneously use for metamagic; in order to do that, you would need to have that sorcery point, and by the rule cited above, you can't have that point along with three other points.

• Might wish to explicitly include something about the non-concurrency of burning a spell slot as a bonus action and casting an empowered spell as a separate action, which seems to be of interest here Jul 14, 2017 at 18:04
• I considered it, but I don't think it's relevant — the simple fact that 'never' means 'never' seems sufficient. Even if burning a slot and casting a spell were concurrent, the sorcerer still never has four sorcery points.
– Marq
Jul 14, 2017 at 18:08
• Ah - so regardless of concurrency the limit applies. Good ruling - simple and removes any possibility of timing exploits. +1 Jul 14, 2017 at 18:09