Roger is a lvl 12 rogue with the talent Weapon Snatcher. He is in melee fighting Badguy, both of them having a rapier, and it is Roger's turn to play.

Roger has a Dexterity of 20 and maxed his ranks in Sleight of Hand (12), so his total skill bonus is +20.

As Roger has +8/+3 BAB, he can perform two attacks. But actually he only wants to disarm his opponent, so he uses all his attacks as disarm attempts.

For the first attempt, he does the attempt at 12+5+3 = +20, opposed to his opponent's CMD (Am I right?)

For the second attempt, does he get the exact same modifier? Does he get a -5 somehow because it is his second iterative attack?

If he was using a +X weapon, would he add X to the roll? If he had other bonus to his CMB (like a flank bonus), do they get transfered to the Sleight of Hands roll?


You are correct for the first roll: it is Sleight of Hand vs. CMD.

Note that the wording on Improved Disarm et al. is “bonus on checks made to disarm a foe.” Thus you would add the bonus from Improved Disarm to your Sleight of Hand check instead of the usual CMB check. (This would not be the case if the wording was something like “bonus on combat maneuver checks to disarm a foe.”)

As for the iterative “penalty,” rules-as-written anyway, the answer is no. There is no penalty being applied so much as you just have a lower base attack bonus for that roll. Base attack bonus is not included in Sleight of Hand checks, so it having a lower value doesn’t mean anything. Weapon snatcher could include rules to apply a −5 penalty or whatever, but it doesn’t do so.

Beyond the rules as written, I don’t see any commentary from Paizo on whether or not this was the intent.

Personally, I am comfortable with weapon snatcher also having that benefit; it’s a good benefit, but rogues are a mediocre class (unchained they’re decent), and disarming is a really, really problematic tactic (largely shut down by a cheap nonmagical item, a locked gauntlet, that I for one buy on just about every character ever because it’s so cheap for such a large benefit).


I generally agree with JP Chapleau: you are using Sleight of Hand, but I would expand this to include the description of the skill:

Any Sleight of Hand check is normally a standard action. However, you may perform a Sleight of Hand check as a move action by taking a –20 penalty on the check.

As I see it, this allows you to make two Sleight of Hand attempts per turn, but at a much greater penalty. Additionally, the Unchained features of the skill (from Unchained Rogue or the Signature Skill feat, if it's allowed) allows:

10 Ranks: The penalty for attempting a Sleight of Hand check (including drawing a hidden weapon) as a move action is reduced to –10.

15 Ranks: You can attempt a Sleight of Hand check (including drawing a hidden weapon) as a swift action at a –20 penalty.

20 Ranks: You take no penalty for using Sleight of Hand as a move action, and take only a –10 penalty when using it as a swift action.

This would reduce the penalties and eventually allow a third attempt when using Weapon Snatcher.

I do agree that Improved (but not Greater) Disarm would increase Sleight of Hand attempts with Weapon Snatcher. Personally, I'd homerule that Greater Disarm also applies.

  • \$\begingroup\$ And what is your answer to the comment of @HeyICanChan? \$\endgroup\$ – Anne Aunyme Sep 1 '17 at 16:02
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    \$\begingroup\$ Weapon snatcher is a specific situation that specifies that the Sleight of Hand check happens when using disarm, not using the general Sleight of Hand rules. The only change is what roll you make (read: what bonuses you use). \$\endgroup\$ – KRyan Sep 1 '17 at 16:10
  • \$\begingroup\$ I must not be reading the same text you are. "make a Sleight of Hand check in place of a combat maneuver check" There is no Combat Maneuver when you use the ability Weapon Snatcher. \$\endgroup\$ – Ifusaso Sep 1 '17 at 17:15
  • \$\begingroup\$ …But, still, making the disarm attempt—therefore allowing that substitution—takes the place of a melee attack. \$\endgroup\$ – Hey I Can Chan Sep 1 '17 at 17:36
  • \$\begingroup\$ Yeah, sequential replacement: 1. eligible to make melee attack, 2. instead make disarm attempt and must make combat maneuver check, 3. instead make Sleight of Hand check. Once you have done so, you have completed the melee attack you were initially eligible to make, and are now free to continue acting as you could have if you had just made a melee attack—including making iterative attacks if the initial attack was part of a full-attack and you have more iteratives. \$\endgroup\$ – KRyan Sep 1 '17 at 17:51

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