# Which identical image appears in each of these editions' DMGs?

The just-for-fun prestige class conventioneer (or, if that doesn't work for you, here) that was posted on Wizards of the Coast Web site in 2001 possesses the special ability convention savvy. The special ability allows a conventioneer to pick, among others, the specialty obscure knowledge, that, in part, says, "Conventioneers know things like which image in the Dungeon Master's Guide has shown up in all three editions."

I know I'm a little bit late to the party here, but is there really an image that's appeared in the , , and Dungeon Master's Guides? If so, what image is it?

Bonus: The article's About the Author section lists as one of Matt Smith's possessions a picture of Torg waving "Hi." Who or what is Torg? Or is this a Matt Smith inside joke thing? (Note that this is likely unrelated to the Torg role-playing game—that'd be one weird picture—and that the author is probably not this nor that Matt Smith—although I'm sure the author's a great guy, too.)

• I don't have an answer to your question, but I'll comment on the aside: I'm guessing it's a reference to Torg (ALL HAIL KING TORG!) of KAMB! – SirTechSpec Sep 19 '17 at 2:54
• Actually, since the article's from 2001, the potential image should probably be looked for first within the 2000 printing of the DMG... (now if I could only find mine) – Chemus Sep 19 '17 at 6:39
• First step would be to compare the list of credited artists. If there's no overlap then odds are slim. – Erics Jan 10 '18 at 5:53
• Is that the literal text from the class? I ask because it seems general enough to admit an answer along the lines of "the D&D logo". I lack the sources to verify either the text or the hypothetical images. – Joel Harmon Jan 13 '18 at 0:13
• Although the title of this question says "identical" images, the referenced text doesn't stipulate that the images are strictly identical, as opposed to similar renditions of the same scene. Suggest removing "identical" from the title. – Mark Beadles Mar 1 '18 at 21:52

That picture is a warrior trapped in a flooding room while attacked from behind by a skeleton. It appears in separate depictions by different artists in AD&D 1st edition, AD&D 2nd edition, and D&D 3.0:

• AD&D 1st edition DMG (1979), page 68. David S. La Force
• AD&D 2nd edition revised DMG (1995), page 95.
• D&D 3.0 DMG (2000), page 114. Wayne Reynolds. Captioned "A water trap threatens to quench Alhandra's life."
• I'm certain readers would find the actual illustrations more persuasive than the page numbers, so I asked over on Meta if including the illustrations is okay. – Hey I Can Chan Jan 12 '18 at 19:01
• Feel free to edit my answer to include those images, should the consensus allow adding these images. – Quadratic Wizard Jan 12 '18 at 20:22
• I would argue that those are similar scenes, not the same image, but … meh. – Erics Jan 13 '18 at 0:07
• I'm moderately confident that this is the 'same image' that the original question refers to. If only I could've found my 3e DMG... +1 – Chemus Jan 13 '18 at 8:22
• For me, the signature on the D&D 3.0 image seems to include a year (2000). Also, I don't have anything similar in my AD&D 2nd DMG from 1993... – burlap Jan 13 '18 at 17:06

The DMG 1e (Efreet cover, Dec 79) has these artist credits:

David C. Sutherland III
D.A. Trampier
Darlene Pekul
Will McLean
David S. La Force
Erol Otus

The DMG 2e (dragon & wizard cover, Nov 92) has these artist credits:

Jeff Easley
Clyde Caldwell
John & Laura Lakey
David Dorman
Douglas Chaffee
Jean E. Martin

The DMG 2e Revised (humanoids cover, April 95) has these artist credits:

Jeff Easley
Ned Dameron
Laura Lakey
Les Dorscheid
Dana Knutsøn
Roger Loveless
David O. Miller
Alan Pollack
Robh Ruppel

... so, odds are not good that there is an illustration that has appeared in both 1e and 2e DMGs, let alone survived into the 3e and 3.5e DMGs.

• Just to be clear, like Chemus's comment on his answer says, it's entirely possible that the similar image may have a different artist in a different edition. That is, the image may depict the same event yet reimagined for the game's then-current iteration. – Hey I Can Chan Jan 12 '18 at 13:47
• @HeyICanChan Then the images are not technically identical. Or the artist credits are not full, or the image was "recreated" to a point where it looks almost the same -- again, not completely identical then. One of the artists could, however, change their name. – Baskakov_Dmitriy Jan 15 '18 at 16:50
• @Baskakov_Dmitriy I used the word identical only in the question's title for convenience. If you'd like to soften that word to something less absolute, feel free to edit the title. (Also, many English words that appear to be absolutes technically aren't absolutes—although I wouldn't use the commonplace comparative or superlative of identical (identicaler and identicalist being crimes against language), more identical is okay, as is opaquer & opaquest, uniquer & uniquest, and vaguer & vaguest. O, man. Sorry! Lecture mode: off.) – Hey I Can Chan Jan 15 '18 at 17:22
• @HeyICanChan Lecture mode is OK, but identicaler and uniquest... Not a native speaker here, but identical sounds like an absolute, two entities are either 100% identical or they are not. Maybe I am wrong, though. – Baskakov_Dmitriy Jan 15 '18 at 19:35
• @Baskakov_Dmitriy (Like I mentioned, identicaler would be a language crime, but a sentence like There are two pairs of identical twins, but the Jones twins are more identical than the Smith twins is how one could employ the actual comparative form of identical. In much the same way one could say Yeah, those DMG images are identical, but they're not as identical as I'd like them to be. And uniquest is a great and perfectly cromulent Scrabble word. ;-)`) – Hey I Can Chan Jan 15 '18 at 19:48

Having leafed through my 1979 Dungeon Masters Guide , 1989 Dungeon Master's Guide and 2003 Dungeon Master's Guide , I find no images that are even markedly similar, let alone identical.

So, unless there's something I've missed, or the images are in printings that I don't have access to (later editions of the AD&D DMG, or AD&D 2e DMG, or in my misplaced 2000 Dungeon Master's Guide ), there appear to be no identical images that span all three editions.

• I'm not gonna downvote you for it or nothin'—in fact, seriously, thanks for looking!—, but since the DMG underwent the most serious surgery during the 3.5 revision, it's entirely possible there's an illustration in the DMG for 3e that's absent from the DMG for 3.5e. (I mean, the illo'd also have to be in the DMGs for AD&D and AD&D 2e, but still.) – Hey I Can Chan Sep 19 '17 at 1:35
• @HeyICanChan Well, I've since been able to examine a different printing of the AD&D DMG, as well as the revised 2e DMG, and the closest they have to having the 'same image' as the article states is that 1e and 2e revised have a, differently illustrated, scene of a man apparently trapped in a water-filled chamber with a sword wielding skeleton. Also, it says "which image in the Dungeon Master's Guide has shown up in all three editions", not that it's in the earlier editions' DMG's. I think this may be a bit ox an X Y problem. – Chemus Sep 19 '17 at 5:32
• O, damn, dude. That's not an XY problem, but me misunderstanding the precision the trivia requires. Go forth and challenge that frame! – Hey I Can Chan Sep 19 '17 at 7:48