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The feat Medical Expert says (in part)

You can use the Medicine skill in conjunction with a medpatch or sprayflesh to treat deadly wounds as a full action.

The Treat Deadly Wounds use of Medicine Skill says

You can use Medicine to restore Hit Points to a living, wounded creature. This takes 1 minute, and the DC is based on the medical equipment used.

The Basic and Advanced Medkits both explicitly list the ability to use them to Treat Deadly Wounds, and lists a DC of 20 and 25, respectively. A Medpatch cannot normally Treat Deadly Wounds, and so does not list a DC. Sprayflesh allows the treatment of Deadly Wounds an extra time a day, and lists DC25 for that.

Can a Medpatch alone, without a Medical Kit, be used to Treat Deadly Wounds by a character with the Medical Expert feat? If so, what is the DC? How about Sprayflesh?

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Yes, it does require a medkit (or medlab)

Here is what Medical Expert says:

Benefit: You can use the Medicine skill in conjunction with a medpatch or sprayflesh to treat deadly wounds as a full action.

What this feat does is to allow you to make a Treat Deadly Wounds action (from Medicine skill) as a full-round action instead of taking 10 rounds (1 minute), as it normally would. The medpatch or sprayflesh is not being used here for their original purpose, they are accelerating the process instead. The reason for this is not because the Medicine skill requires a medkit, but that it requires a tool that allows you to Treat Deadly Wounds, which neither the medpatch nor sprayflesh do.

The proper tool is still required and you still use the tool's DC for this check. Example: For a Basic Medkit (DC 25), and for an Advanced Medkit (DC 20). While both Medical Lab and Medical Bay function as an Advanced Medkit and thus have the same DC.

Do note that the original effect of the medpatch/sprayflesh will not work when using the item to enhance the time, which means you do not gain the +10 to Medicine checks from a medpatch. If you have the time for it, it is better to use the medpatch to gain the +10 bonus and take a minute using a medkit.

When used in this way, the medpatch or sprayflesh does not perform any of its normal functions.

But this doesn't mean you cannot use an extra medpatch to gain that +10 bonus on your Medicine check, effectively using two medpatches if that's the case. Or use a sprayflesh to gain the benefits of Medical Expert and a medpatch to gain +10 on the check.

The feat also allows you to make a Long-Term Care action (also from Medicine) simply with a medkit (instead of a medical lab or medical bay), simply by taking a DC 30 check. Here you could also use a medpatch to obtain it's +10 bonus on the check though, as this is a separate effect.

One thing to consider is the fact that if they did say "with a medkit, medilab or medical bay", then they would be backfiring themselves on future suplements, they would have to add a note about medical expert every time they write up a new feat, tool or ability that allows you to Treat Deadly Wounds using the Medicine skill, like what happened to Haste in Pathfinder (every new ability that works like haste has to mention it doesn't stack with haste). By leaving it blank (medicine DC is based on the tool used) they are "futureproofing" the rules against that and are free to add new types of medikit-like tools (like a bacta tank or healing bots) without being limited to what is already written on the core rulebook.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ The problem with this answer is the medicine skill does not list what equipment is necessary to perform treat deadly wounds, only that it is based on equipment used. Thus, by not mentioning medicine kit in that segment, it seems to be exempting it as a necessity. \$\endgroup\$ – spade Sep 29 '17 at 11:19
  • \$\begingroup\$ I don't see any problem, this is how people have been discussing this feat on paizo messageboards. This interpretation leaves no unanswered questions in the rules ("what is the DC for a medpatch?"). You are correct that it does not list the item required, but that is because that is covered on other parts of the rules (medpatch, medbay, etc). \$\endgroup\$ – ShadowKras Sep 29 '17 at 11:34
  • \$\begingroup\$ And yet, the answer below says the exact opposite. I don't think it's clearcut, and just saying 'of course it is' doesn't fix that. \$\endgroup\$ – YogoZuno Oct 1 '17 at 10:40
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    \$\begingroup\$ @ShadowKras in that case, your answer might be marginally improved by fitting that bit in in the appropriate places (the paragraph starting with "do note", and a bit of wording adjustment on the paragraph starting with "The feat also"). \$\endgroup\$ – Ben Barden Oct 4 '17 at 19:17
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    \$\begingroup\$ Despite still thinking it's ambiguous, a re-read has convinced me your interpretation is more likely the correct one. Here's hoping for errata eventually. \$\endgroup\$ – YogoZuno Apr 13 '18 at 2:55
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Can a Medpatch alone, without a Medical Kit, be used to Treat Deadly Wounds by a character with the Medical Expert feat?

Yes, per the Feat description:

You can use the Medicine skill in conjunction with a medpatch or sprayflesh to treat deadly wounds as a full action.

it can be done. This is a case of specific trumps general.

However, since the Medical Expert feat does not reference DCs, the Medpatch description does not includes DCs or the ability to treat deadly wounds, and the Medicine skill description categorizes DCs as based upon equipment, any DC at this time will be subjected to DM fiat since RAW is silent (nothing on the errata pages as of yet).


Approximating DC for use.

  • Medpatch : DC N/A
  • Sprayflesh : DC 25
  • Basic Medkit : DC 25
  • Advanced Medkit : DC 20
  • Medical Lab : DC 20

The range of Treat Deadly wounds ranges from DC20(advanced medkits/medlabs) to DC25(everything else).

This puts a Medpatch at the high end, or DC25 for treat deadly wounds. Given that the 2 separate items(Sprayflesh and Medpatch) cover the full range of the medicine skill, and are explicitly called out by the feat, it makes sense for those two to share a DC when used in the special circumstances outlined.

How about Sprayflesh?

If you succeed at a DC 25 Medicine check, the next time such a creature rests for 10 minutes and spends a Resolve Point to regain Stamina Points, it can instead gain the benefit of your Medicine check to treat deadly wounds

As the above shows, it has a DC25 medicine check for treating deadly wounds, even if it is in a roundabout way.

Since the feat Medical Expert says:

When used in this way, the medpatch or sprayflesh does not perform any of its normal functions

Then it is likely intended to just be DC25 medicine check while using Sprayflesh in conjunction with the Medical Expert feats to Treat Deadly Wounds

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