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In Pathfinder, if an inquisitor with a negative charisma mod takes the Urban Vigilante archetype and the Heresy inquisition, does he still add Charisma to bluff, disguise, and diplomacy(per Urban Infiltrator) or is it just completely replaced with Wisdom only(per the Heresy inquisition)?

Urban Infiltrator:

An urban infiltrator adds her Wisdom modifier as well as her Charisma modifier on Bluff and Disguise skill checks and on Diplomacy checks to gather information.

Heresy Inquisition:

You use your Wisdom modifier instead of your Charisma modifier when making Bluff and Intimidate checks.

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Officially, both work simultaneously, so heresy substitutes Wisdom for Charisma and then urban infiltrator also adds Wisdom—resulting in Wisdom being added twice, which isn’t allowed per this FAQ entry.

That FAQ entry has a lot of problems (being something written long after numerous options for doing so were, so it became a kind of stealth nerf—justified in some, but not all, cases. Also, the rules “interpretation” used is just flat-out wrong.), but it’s pretty widely followed. I suspect that most GMs, however, would allow you to ignore the heresy inquisition’s righteous infiltration ability if you really wanted.

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An urban infiltrator adds her Wisdom modifier as well as her Charisma modifier on Bluff and Disguise skill checks and on Diplomacy checks to gather information

WIS+CHA on Bluff, Disguise, and Diplomacy (gather info) as written above

You use your Wisdom modifier instead of your Charisma modifier when making Bluff and Intimidate checks.

WIS instead of CHA on Intimidate checks. The character already uses WIS+CHA for Bluff from Urban Infiltrator so nothing changes there and gains both modifiers on Bluff as written via Urban Infiltrator.

If Heresy Inquisition modifiers are applied first then the Urban Infiltrator's rule on "...her Wisdom modifier as well as her Charisma modifier..." next wouldn't it overrule the HI one? As far I see it only makes sense for the two to coexist using this method. It's the only way to avoid the question of "Which comes first?" and still make sense.

Simplified:

  • WIS+CHA for Bluff, Disguise & Diplomacy (gather info)
  • WIS for Intimidate

If a GM wants to be more restrictive it could be ruled that Heresy Inquisition limits the ability score instead. Using only WIS for both Bluff and Intimidate. However, I find no RAW ruling on this.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ “The character already uses WIS+CHA for Bluff from Urban Infiltrator so nothing changes,” you need to cite that last bit there. I see absolutely no reason whatsoever that urban infiltrator wouldn’t change the existing Cha to Wis (regardless of the existing Wis), resulting in Wis + Wis and the problems that causes (per my answer). There is no relevant rule I can think of that would cause urban infiltrator to do nothing in that case. \$\endgroup\$ – KRyan Mar 16 '18 at 22:04
  • \$\begingroup\$ @KRyan Let me ask you then why you would think if HI modifiers are applied first then the Urban Infiltrators rule on "...her Wisdom modifier as well as her Charisma modifier..." wouldn't overrule that? As far I see it only makes sense for the two to coexist using this method. \$\endgroup\$ – Drake Mar 19 '18 at 17:02
  • \$\begingroup\$ Oh, I see, hm. That’s a good point. Un-downvoted, and I’d upvote if that explanation made its way into the answer itself. \$\endgroup\$ – KRyan Mar 19 '18 at 17:05
  • \$\begingroup\$ @KRyan Updated, I hope the reasoning is now clear. \$\endgroup\$ – Drake Mar 19 '18 at 17:11
  • \$\begingroup\$ I think you should present them in the order you would have them apply, that is, heresy inquisition first followed by urban infiltrator, to make it clearer that you’re doing Cha→Wis→Wis+Cha instead of Cha→Wis+Cha→Wis+Wis (which runs into ability score stacking problems). \$\endgroup\$ – KRyan Mar 19 '18 at 17:13

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