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As some people may know as full casters level up they get access to more and more awesome things ranging from bringing rains of acid to destroy armies. While I was playing a level 18 wizard I decided I wanted my own realm to lord over rather than staying in material realm and having pesky gods mess with my business. The question is how can I create a plane large enough to satisfy my ego with the resources a normal level 18 character has?

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    \$\begingroup\$ I've revised the title from "without money expenditure" to "with only normal level 18 resources". The latter is the actual question and criteria in your body; the criteria there is not "spend no money at all". Since the title is only meant to be a summary of body details, it now summarises that properly instead of alluding to a totally different criteria that goes unmentioned in the body. That matters for questions like: is buying a 500gp tuning fork OK? That's accepted by the question body, but forbidden by the old title. \$\endgroup\$ – doppelgreener May 25 '18 at 21:51
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You will need to start by paying for a permanency on the spell that creates your demiplane.

Then, if you cast create greater demiplane, you can give your plane the "Timeless" trait, which says:

If a plane is timeless with respect to magic, any spell cast with a noninstantaneous duration is permanent until dispelled.

When used to give a plane a trait, this spell's duration is "instantaneous" which means the effect lasts forever.

Then you can cast as many additional create greater demiplane spells as you want. All of them will be permanent until dispelled.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ This seems too good to be true. Am I missing something? \$\endgroup\$ – Dan B May 25 '18 at 22:24
  • \$\begingroup\$ I would look up for a RAI statement on the subject. I dont think the timeless trait is supposed to affect itself here. \$\endgroup\$ – ShadowKras May 26 '18 at 12:09
  • \$\begingroup\$ I'm not claiming that the timeless trait affects itself. Any use of create greater demiplane to give a trait to a demiplane automatically has "instantaneous" duration and lasts forever. \$\endgroup\$ – Dan B May 26 '18 at 15:41
  • \$\begingroup\$ Adding traits such as Timeless are permanent as long as the demiplane exists... so making the demiplane permanent means the trait is permanent. \$\endgroup\$ – Ifusaso May 26 '18 at 20:04
  • \$\begingroup\$ The price on Permanency and casting create greater demiplane 2+ times is intended to cover the value. \$\endgroup\$ – Ifusaso May 26 '18 at 20:05
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Typical characters will use Genesis

Genesis is a 9th level spell not on anyone's spell list, and a very efficient way to create large demiplanes without enormous caster levels. The main obstacle to creating a demiplane of sufficient size and suitable nature via such methods is that it takes quite a long time to cast.

The biggest advantage to using Genesis over Create Greater Demiplane is that the former places no restrictions on the environmental traits you can select. This means that, if used as-written, you can select 'Flowing Time: 1 round::1 milliatillion years' as your time trait, and then expand your domain by about 10 nongennovemnonagintillion miles in radius (or approximately a hundred nongennonagintillion universe-lengths) once per surprise round of material plane time you wanna spend doing that. Or whatever other flowing time rate you want. And any projects you have automatons working on in the accelerated time space will be done and ancient if you ever leave. Etc.

Some characters will instead use Create Greater Demiplane

Create Greater Demiplane is on spell lists and takes much less time to cast. Unfortunately, it only grows linearly, not exponentially, and it only allows a small number of temporal modifications. Whereas we can get any speed up factor we want with Genesis, Create Greater Demiplane only allows us to do so via making up custom erratic time traits-- flowing time is limited to merely double or half time. There's no actual limitation on what erratic time traits can exist, so this may effectively be the same as having access to arbitrary flowing time, but it is sometimes read as limiting you to only the example erratic time trait, in which case moving between a set of separate, linked demiplanes all with that trait can get you a 14,400 times speed-up, which is optimal for this spell.

The biggest advantage Create Greater Demiplane has is that it's much harder to dispel (each piece needs to be dispelled separately). It also casts much faster and can be augmented in different ways after its creation, and it's on lots of spell lists.

As a wizard, getting off-list 9th-level spells is actually kinda hard. You lack even the spontaneous casting of Clerics and Druids so a Page of Spell Knowledge, the typical way to do this, doesn't help you at all; being able to use your slots to cast the spell as if you knew it (via Use Magic Device) doesn't do you any good because you have to prepare all your spells to cast them and there's not really any way to prepare Genesis or write it into a spellbook based on your being technically allowed to cast it if you had 9th level spontaneous spellcasting available. You can't even get it by being a Samsaran or by stealing the Anathema Archive artifact, because Genesis is divine-only. For these reasons, if you insist on creating the plane yourself (and want it to be big-- otherwise a scroll would do) and you're a single-classed wizard, you may really need to bite the bullet and use Create Greater Demiplane rather than Genesis here.

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    \$\begingroup\$ Careful reading of genesis says: "You determine the environment in the demiplane, reflecting most any desire you can visualize, such as atmosphere, water, temperature, and the shape of the terrain." It's not obvious to me that this lets you control the flow of time. Have you got a citation? \$\endgroup\$ – Dan B May 26 '18 at 1:48
  • \$\begingroup\$ (You mention "environment traits" but the genesis spell just lets you control "the environment", and I'm not sure if that's the same as "planar traits".) \$\endgroup\$ – Dan B May 26 '18 at 1:49
  • \$\begingroup\$ @DanB It's not the same as planar traits; physical planar traits are a subset of planar traits. They include gravity and time, among other things. Seems this is at least a little contraversial, though : reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/66lgcr/… (note that there's little changed between 3.5 and pathfinder here) \$\endgroup\$ – Please stop being evil May 26 '18 at 6:14
  • \$\begingroup\$ Also, increasing the size as such would require casting it 0.6 nongennovemnonagintillion times, for approximately 15000 nongennovemnonagintillion gold in perfectly formed crystal. \$\endgroup\$ – Ifusaso May 26 '18 at 20:09
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Ifusaso Sure, but that's well within the resources available to an 18th level wizard. The real obstacle is getting it on list. \$\endgroup\$ – Please stop being evil May 26 '18 at 20:58
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This answer is not specific to wizards alone as any spellcaster with these spells can create their own plane of existence within a second.

Spells you will need:

  1. Blood Money
  2. Create Lesser Demiplane
  3. Form Of The Dragon III
  4. Enlarge Person

Necessary class dips:

  • Synthesist Summoner level 1: Use your evolution points to get strength boost and choose biped. (Note. If you are going eldritch knight route and if you have strength equal or higher than 18 you don't need to do this.

Now time for step by step explanation

  • Borrow strength boosting items from the group's meatshield. You will need these for the blood money.
  • Cast Form Of The Dragon III
  • Cast Enlarge Person.

Now you should have a total of 36 strength which is enough to use blood money in order to cast permanency on a demiplane which will give you 35 strength damage. Rinse and repeat until you have a plane of your own.

Instant Realm Creation:

You will need at least 23 strength to use this method and you will need to take 1 level in alchemist. (23 strength is not that hard if you went Eldritch knight route. 18 from point buy+2 from being half orc +3 while leveling up)

Borrow items from the meatshield unless you are the meatshield

Create a greater demiplane with timeless trait magic wise Enter the demiplane and cast timestop. Because the plane is timeless all of the magical effects will continue to persist so the time will not restart again.

  • Enhancement Boost From Items 29 Strength
  • Make a strength mutagen and swallow it. 33 strength
  • Cast form of the dragon 3 43 strength
  • Cast Enlarge 45 strength
  • Cast Blood Money
  • Cast permanency dealing 45 strength damage.

Rinse and repeat until you have a demiplane the size you want. Leave your demiplane and laugh at the party as the meathead who created a whole new realm before the DM starts laughing and tells you that you immediately die from hunger as soon as you leave the demiplane. Seriously though. It is advised that you wear a ring of sustenance before doing this.

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    \$\begingroup\$ (The permanency spell has a casting time of 2 rounds, rendering it ineligible for the blood money spell.) \$\endgroup\$ – Hey I Can Chan May 25 '18 at 0:50
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    \$\begingroup\$ (The form of the dragon spells set the subject's size category and change the subject's type to dragon. The spell enlarge person only affects creatures possessing the type humanoid. Combined, they're incompatible: if enlarge person is cast first, it's negated by the static size of the form spell; casting form first means the caster's ineligible for enlarge person. But this is only barely a thing—it's just +2 Str.) \$\endgroup\$ – Hey I Can Chan May 25 '18 at 5:04
  • \$\begingroup\$ Yeah, as soon as I saw Form of the <Whatever> and Enlarge being mentioned as stacking size increases, I felt the need to comment they dont stack. If your point is to increase your strength score, use Bull's Strength for the enhancement bonus, then Form spells for size bonuses. \$\endgroup\$ – ShadowKras May 25 '18 at 16:08
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Strictly speaking, casting spells from a scroll requires no material component.

As such, a cash-free method of creating a permanent plane such as you describe consists of:

  1. Obtain gross quantities of the required spell scrolls.
  2. Cast spells from the scrolls.

Et voila! “Free” demiplane.


I’m aware that scrolls still require the material components to be provided when scribed, but that’s a different issue entirely.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ (Downvotes are a part of everything, but at least some criticism would be appreciated.) \$\endgroup\$ – royalmurder May 25 '18 at 21:43
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    \$\begingroup\$ I think it's at least partly because this answer is missing 2 things: (1) how should we get all those scrolls with only the materials available to a level 18 character? (2) which spells are required? Those are two really big questions not filled in. You also mention material components and say it's a different issue entirely, but it's not -- that's the issue, doing it with only components available to a level 18 character. Do those material components fit that criteria? \$\endgroup\$ – doppelgreener May 25 '18 at 21:47
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    \$\begingroup\$ I've updated the title of the question as the "no money expenditure" criteria was never specified in the body anyway. \$\endgroup\$ – doppelgreener May 25 '18 at 21:54
  • \$\begingroup\$ @doppelgreener entirely fair points. I’ll take them away and devise an improved answer. \$\endgroup\$ – royalmurder May 25 '18 at 21:55
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    \$\begingroup\$ How on Oerth is one supposed to obtain gross quantities of specific scrolls without spending any cash? \$\endgroup\$ – GMJoe May 26 '18 at 1:24

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