Can a character with levels in Mind Mage and Spell-to-Power Erudite learn their own spells (i.e. Shapechange) as powers at a below normal spell level (i.e. 1st level) with the Mind Mage's Focus of Discipline class ability which allows them to cast spells as lower level spells using lower spell slots? Perhaps if they created a magic item with the lowered spell and then studied that or something?

  • \$\begingroup\$ Is it just me, or is that class heavily slanted towards boosting psionics over magic? \$\endgroup\$ – nijineko Jun 13 '18 at 19:58


Based on my understanding, being able to use a class feature to cast a spell or manifest a power at lower level, doesn't change what level spell or power it actually is, only it's effective spell level for purposes of memorizing, casting, or manifesting.

Note also that the class feature in question says:

...counts as a correspondingly lower-level effect for the purposes of dispelling, saving throw DC, and identification for counter spelling.

Those are the only other purposes it counts as a lower level effect for.

If it had said that it counts for purposes of scribing a scroll or encoding a power stone, you would have been in business.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ So would an Artificer work? \$\endgroup\$ – Cellheim Jun 14 '18 at 6:12
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Cellheim What class feature combination are you thinking of? The Etch Schema feat, maybe? \$\endgroup\$ – nijineko Jun 14 '18 at 17:22
  • \$\begingroup\$ Under Item Creation (Ex): "For purposes of meeting item prerequisites, an artificer's effective caster level equals his artificer level +2. If the item duplicates a spell effect, however, it uses the artificer's actual level as its caster level. Costs are always determined using the item's minimum caster level or the artificer's actual level (if it is higher). \$\endgroup\$ – Cellheim Jun 14 '18 at 19:40
  • \$\begingroup\$ ...Thus, a 3rd-level artificer can make a scroll of fireball, since the minimum caster level for fireball is 5th. He pays the normal cost for making such a scroll with a caster level of 5th: 5 X 3 X 12.5 = 187 gp and 5 sp, plus 15 XP. But the scroll's actual caster level is only 3rd, and it produces a weak fireball that deals only 3d6 points of damage." \$\endgroup\$ – Cellheim Jun 14 '18 at 19:40
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Cellheim Well, that should let you make a weakened version of anything that can be made into a scroll or schema based on the Artificer class feature, however that is only a two level drop. The Mind Mage class feature still wouldn't apply, as it doesn't count as being lower level for item creation purposes. Thus a Level 1 Shapechange seems impossible, short of DM-permission-house-ruling the Mind Mage class feature. \$\endgroup\$ – nijineko Jun 15 '18 at 21:11

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