Thanks for anyone who can answer me this. I have a 12th level Cleric with the craft magic arms and armor feat who would like to upgrade his Flametongue. Now, the question is, can I even do that? The wording I've been able to fine is all very fuzzy and hard to understand. It says in the DMG that you can do it without restriction so long as level requirements are met. So, could I make this +1 Flametongue not only +4, as I am level 12, but could I add Holy and Ghost touch as I meet those prerequisites as well? Or does that make it out of reach as the "total enhancement" for the weapon would be +10? Reading the DMG they state the "total enhancement" bonus in that particular table (on page 222) is just used for pricing. So again, fairly confused as to if I am misunderstanding or if I'm right on the money in my assessment.

Thanks again!


1 Answer 1



Firstly, you can always upgrade items by paying the difference (DMG p288):

A creator can add new magical abilities to a magic item with no restrictions. The cost to do so is the same as if the item was not magical. Thus, a +1 longsword can be made into a +2 vorpal longsword, with the cost to create it being equal to that of a +2 vorpal sword minus the cost of a +1 sword.

Flame Tongue is slightly different because it has a unique ability, so that there technically is no +4 Flame Tongue in the books to upgrade to, but according to the FAQ (p.63), you can upgrade it if the DM gives permission:

That said, a DM willing to allow leeway in item creation could allow a character to upgrade such an item's capabilities, using the same guidelines as for improving any other item (see previous question).

Based on the examples given in the FAQ, Flame Tongue is a 20,715 gp +1 flaming burst longsword with a unique ability, and costs 2,400 gp more than a standard +1 flaming burst longsword.

You can therefore upgrade your weapon by paying the difference between a +1 flaming burst sword and the item you want to upgrade to.

As for level requirements, being level 12 and able to craft a weapon of up to +4, that means you can give the weapon an enhancement bonus of up to +4. That's actual enhancement bonus, so you can make a +4 weapon with as many special abilities as you like until you hit the hard limit of +10.

Creating a magic weapon has a special prerequisite: The creator’s caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the weapon. If an item has both an enhancement bonus and a special ability the higher of the two caster level requirements must be met.

This seems to imply that you also need to be level 12 to put a +4 equivalent special ability onto a weapon, though it doesn't specifically say this, so it's a little vague. It doesn't matter at all in your case since the only special ability higher than +4 is vorpal.

In your case, the +1 Flame Tongue is priced as +3 (Flaming Burst property is +2). This means if you upgrade it to +4 Flame Tongue, it is priced as a +6 weapon (plus the 2,400 gp for its special property). You can attach up to +4 in additional special abilities before you hit the +10 hard cap.

  • \$\begingroup\$ Thank you so very much Quadratic. I was under the impression I could but getting another voice to back that up was certainly something I wanted. Cheers again for you knowledge and time! \$\endgroup\$
    – Sethus
    Commented Jul 2, 2018 at 21:46
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ Hi @Sethus - if the answer helped you, you should consider upvoting and accepting it. (Normally we'd suggest you wait a little bit in case anyone else has a better answer before accepting an answer, but Quadratic Wizard's pretty well summarised the rules for upgrading magic items in 3.5e and I doubt any further answers are necessary.) \$\endgroup\$
    – Carcer
    Commented Jul 2, 2018 at 22:56
  • \$\begingroup\$ @QuadraticWizard Special abilities have their own listed caster levels. Vorpal, for instance, is listed as CL 18th, so an enchanter needs to be at least an 18th level caster to enchant a vorpal weapon. \$\endgroup\$
    – Cadrac
    Commented Jul 25, 2018 at 3:57
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Cadrac No, in D&D 3.5 the caster level is not a prerequisite; it's just the typical caster level of that item found as treasure (e.g. in case it is subjected to dispel magic). I believe Pathfinder changed this rule to make the caster level a prerequisite. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Jul 25, 2018 at 11:21
  • \$\begingroup\$ @QuadraticWizard From DMG pg. 215, where it discusses magic item descriptions, in the section on Caster Level, "For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the item itself. In this case, the creator's caster level must be as high as the item's caster level (and prerequisites may effectively put a higher minimum on the creator's level.)" [emphasis mine] Ergo, you can't create an item that has a higher caster level than you. \$\endgroup\$
    – Cadrac
    Commented Jul 26, 2018 at 16:59

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