I have a character who is a level 17 Rogue (any Roguish Archetype) that needs to be an Oni. The only solution I can find is using magic jar while the Oni is in humanoid form:

Change Shape. The oni magically polymorphs into a Small or Medium humanoid... 

Is this possible within official rules? I'm stumped because the Ring of Spell Storing doesn't work with 6th level spells.

  • \$\begingroup\$ Do you need to cast this once or often? And what is your subclass? \$\endgroup\$
    – NotArch
    Jul 20, 2018 at 19:05
  • \$\begingroup\$ @NautArch just once is fine. And undecided thus far \$\endgroup\$ Jul 20, 2018 at 19:43
  • \$\begingroup\$ As two answers have included a specific subclass, that may sway you :) \$\endgroup\$
    – NotArch
    Jul 20, 2018 at 19:52

3 Answers 3


As an Arcane Trickster, cast from a scroll.

See: can an arcane trickster use a spell scroll from the wizard spell list?

There is a DC check involved in casting a spell above your capability.

On using spell scrolls:

If the spell is on your class’s spell list but of a higher level than you can normally cast, you must make an ability check using your Spellcasting ability to determine whether you cast it successfully. The DC equals 10 + the spell’s level. On a failed check, the spell disappears from the scroll with no other effect.

  • \$\begingroup\$ @BenBarden Guaranteed? Not by any means. However, there are a few ways a character could get advantage on the roll. \$\endgroup\$
    – GcL
    Jul 20, 2018 at 19:54
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ @BenBarden Why do you think they don't have access to the Wizard Spell List. It only says: When you reach 3rd level, you gain the ability to cast spells. See Spells Rules for the general rules of spellcasting and the Spells Listing for the wizard spell list. \$\endgroup\$
    – NotArch
    Jul 20, 2018 at 19:58
  • \$\begingroup\$ Well, we have a Crawford tweet now, so the matter is settled regardless. I've removed my comments. \$\endgroup\$
    – Ben Barden
    Jul 20, 2018 at 20:02
  • 2
    \$\begingroup\$ Interesting point, related to this post: Search out a Divination Wizard, ask them for good luck, and have them force the roll to be a success using Portent. \$\endgroup\$ Jul 20, 2018 at 20:41

As a Thief, use a scroll via Use Magic Device

Use Magic Device allows a (13th-level or higher) Thief Rogue to use magical items regardless of class, level, or race restrictions. Considering that a spell scroll is defined as being unintelligible if it's not on your class list, a Thief should technically be able to use it.

Now, casting the spell from it is a little harder, as it requires an "ability check with [their] spellcasting ability", with a DC equaling 10 + the spell's level. Per DMG p. 141, a thief rogue's spellcasting ability modifier is +0, so it would simply be a d20 roll with no modifiers; to use a magic jar spell scroll, that's a DC 16 check with no bonuses (a 25% chance of success).

Considering a Thief has no magical talents, that's still pretty cool.

For more info about using spell scrolls as a Thief Rogue, see this question.

  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ That's a clever find. \$\endgroup\$
    – GcL
    Jul 20, 2018 at 20:09
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ It says, "you ignore all class, race, and level requirements on the use of magic items." Not that you count as every class. The scroll requires a class spell list, which is not covered by Use Magic Device. \$\endgroup\$ Jul 20, 2018 at 20:12
  • \$\begingroup\$ @DavidCoffron There is a quote on the link I posted that actually addresses this exact concern, potentially on page 141 of the DMG in the Casting Spells section. I don't have it on me any time soon, so I can't prove that quote, but you can check it yourself. "If you don't have a spellcasting ability—perhaps you're a rogue with the Use Magic Device feature—your spellcasting ability modifier is +0 for the item[...]" Once again, this is simply a quote someone else posted, so I have no actual idea if it's real or not. \$\endgroup\$ Jul 20, 2018 at 20:15
  • \$\begingroup\$ Ita a real quote by i think it doesn't apply here (it's a reference to any spell cast from a magic object). I'll address in the linked question \$\endgroup\$ Jul 20, 2018 at 20:18
  • \$\begingroup\$ Assuming my post is valid, I suppose you could find a Divination Wizard and pay them to use their Portent power to fudge the dice in your favor. \$\endgroup\$ Jul 20, 2018 at 20:35

At least two ways.

  • True Polymorph (plus an hour of concentration) from a friendly caster ought to do the trick just fine. As a 17th level rogue it's at least plausible that you're friends with someone capable of casting that.

  • Magic Jar is on the wizard spell list. The Arcane Trickster uses the Wizard spell list as the source for its spells. Crawford has stated that Arcane Tricksters (and Eldritch Knights) can, in fact, use higher-level wizard spells from scrolls. You'll have to roll (16-intmod) or better or waste the scroll and have to try again, but at that level, you should be able to afford a fair number of 6th-level spell scrolls.

  • 3
    \$\begingroup\$ For reference about the second option, Crawford addresses this here: "The intent is yes, the Arcane Trickster and the Eldritch Knight can use scrolls with wizard spells on them." \$\endgroup\$
    – V2Blast
    Jul 20, 2018 at 19:58

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .