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We know that different races of Fera can share kin; in fact, I'll base the rest of the question on the Zhong Lung merit Same-Bito Kin: this allows you to play a Mokolé who is also Kin to Rokea. Suppose that this Mokolé goes on to breed with a crocodile (Kin or not) and have children, crocodiles who happen to be Kin to Rokea (and Mokolé too, of course). What happens if, be it one of these children or in a few generations, the Rokea breeds true in a child naturally born as a crocodile? Would something prevent this? Would they gain a Homid form? Would they lose their natural (Suchid) form? Would they change between a crocodile and a shark, and if so would that affect their Glabrus/Gladius forms?

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  • \$\begingroup\$ Official answers would be preferred, but if there's an answer to this in a book, I never found it. \$\endgroup\$ – Yandros Aug 15 '18 at 2:40
  • \$\begingroup\$ Where do you source this merit? I did dig through all of the W20 and the mentioned ones below, not a single mention of Same-Bito Kin as a merit. \$\endgroup\$ – Trish Sep 17 '18 at 15:38
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Trish Breedbook 6 - Mokolé, pg76 \$\endgroup\$ – Yandros Sep 17 '18 at 19:05
  • \$\begingroup\$ Eh,... You misunderstand that Merit in total: it has nothing to do with Kin as in Kinfolk (Fera breeding stock), it means Kin as in family. Zhon Lung see themselves as the uncles of the Rokea... let me ammend my answer for THIS one. \$\endgroup\$ – Trish Sep 17 '18 at 20:05
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What do the Books say?

  • There is no mention of this in the 20th Anniversary Edition, nor the Changing Breeds belonging to it has this meritW20CB p207.
  • The Hengeyokai, that gave us so much about Same-Bito and Zhong Lung does not mention such a trait/feat at all, nor does it list it in Merits/FlawsHengeyokai p107.
  • The Revised Players Guide to the Changing Breeds mentions this in neither the MokoléPGttCB p111 nor RokeaPGttCB p148 entry nor the merits/flaws/background sectionPGttCB p164.
  • At the off chance, I dug out the Mind Eye's Theatre - Hengeyokai... No word on this connection when the Same-Bitop91 and Zhong Lungp108/109 speak about the Kinfolk.
  • I dug out 2nd Edition Breed Book 6 - Mokolé. It mentions the Zhong Lung... but not their ties to Same-Bito kinfolkp40/41. They have a special trait that has to do with kinfolk: something to increase the chance of making one of their own kindp52.
  • In a similar vein I took Breed Book 8 - Rokea. There is mention of the Same-Bitop28. But it also has a very interesting tidbit: Rokea don't have Kinfolk in the traditional sense. ANY shark is Kinfolk to them, and any coupling that results in one shark only generates a Rokeap36. And any coupling with a human will never be Rokea but generate what would be best described as Kinfolk in the traditional sense. Only if a Rokea breeds with those humans, it can generate another Rokeap37. Yet the book also refers to the Mokolé as cousins a few times, but that has nothing to do with breeding but that both breeds are the oldest. Yet no word among the traits that this would be possiblep65. BTW, what do Rokea think about Mokolé? This:

    The oldest of the Changers are good neighbors, if not friends. [...] The place we most often have regular contact with them is in Australia, probably because the crocodiles out there can swim the Sea. Also, the crocs down under — "salties," they're called — use humans as a food source! That's gutsy, I'll admit. And the humans still go swimming. . ..

  • Kinfolk - Unsung Heroes of W20 goes even more into detail! But again: NO WORD about this combo of lineages.

    This means that the vast majority of Rokea are sharkborn. There are no Kinfolk sharks. A Rokea mating with a shark produces a single Rokea offspringp50
    [...]
    homid Kinfolk of the Rokea are no more than one or two generations removed from their direct Rokea ancestors.p51

Fera procreation in general

Let's first check the general rules about Fera and procreation: they either lay a human or animal kinfolk, if they are not using some other trick to generate offspring (looking at you, Corax!). They take their animal shape to lay an animal of the same breed (Garou in Lupus with wolves, Khan in Felid with tigers, Kitsune in Kyubi with foxes, etc.). For Rokea this means a little more: a Tigershark-born Rokea picks a Tigershark if mating in animal shape, not a white shark and certainly not a crocodile either.

Cross-Mating-Experiments!

What does this all mean to the combo? Well, there is ONE way it might work, and only one: Not with animal Kinfolk but human Kinfolk. How? listen up:

  • Mokolé Kinfolk is an automatic inheritable trait. As long as your line can be traced back to a Mokolé Kinfolk within some generations (rather long) you are Mokolé Kinfolk.
  • Rokea Kinfolk is - for humans - inheritable if one of your parents is Rokea, or possibly if both parents are Rokea kinfolk like on Hawa'i.

A human Mokolé Kinfolk can certainly interbreed with a Rokea. This child \$ F_1 \$ is for all purposes Kinfolk to both lines: for Mokolé because of lineage, for Rokea because of the one parent. Now, we have our Hybrid... let's go into the \$F_2\$, and we summon a host of parents:

  • Coupling the \$F1\$ with a Mokolé give a Mokolé or Mokolé Kinfolk, without the Rokea Kinfolk "trait".
  • Coupling the \$F1\$ with a Rokea gives a Rokea. Not Mokolé Kinfolk.
  • Coupling the \$F1\$ with a Rokea Kinfolk gives a human Mokolé+Rokea Kinfolk

The Pentex Solution

If there is one thing Pentax is good at, it is perverting nature. Provided they have a source for Mokolé and Rokea genetic material, they might use their Wyrm infused labs, magicans, vampires and fomori to generate a breed of hybrid kinfolk in a similar fashion as they recreate the Bunyip or made Gorilla-Shapeshifters. But no honorable Mokolé or Rokea would talk to Pentax to even propose this!

Origin of the Question?!

After getting told where the Same Bito Kin merit was noted (I missed it for some odd reason), I looked at it again:

You are Kin to the Weresharks of the East. The ST will create the Same-Bito school who are related to you[...]Breedbook 6 - Mokolé p76

This is all we got, but there are three things of note here:

  • It is not tied to the Kinfolk trait in any way, in fact, it only mentions kin not kinfolk. Which is different: Kin is a general word, it means family in some way. Kinfolk is the game term for "Fera Breeding Stock".
  • The whole culture of the Same-Bito was invented by the Zhong Lung, and they look at them like younger brothers/sisters. Heck, they even use the term "cousin" for Mokolé in the Rokea breed book constantly, showing that the two are among the first born species, and the only ones the Rokea can at all work with to some degree.
  • It mentions a school of Same-Bito. A school of Same-Bito is the equivalent of a pack. Usually they are not only not blood related to one another, they are also usually from different breeds (=shark races). Nothing speaks of them wanting or even being able to reproduce with you.

Nothing in this specific merit says, that the Mokolé could procreate with the Rokea, in fact, neither Rokea nor Mokolé do have the ability to generate any Metis offspring (that can live on its own). It is a social merit that pretty much takes the spot of "Werewolf friend" for cats, but generates a whole pack, not a single ally.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ Wow, this is an incredibly detailed answer. Thanks for all the hard work. \$\endgroup\$ – Yandros Sep 18 '18 at 8:26

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