# Are Sacred Geometry metamagic feats usable outside the feat?

Yes, I know Sacred Geometry gets a lot of hate for good reason. It can slow down a game or be very powerful for casters.

Those are not what I am interested in.

When you take this feat, select two metamagic feats you do not yet have. When casting a spell, you can perform the steps below to spontaneously apply the effects of either or both of these metamagic feats, as well as any other metamagic feats you have

My question is about the metamagic feats selected. Would a caster who's taken this feat be able to use the selected metamagic feats without using them with sacred geometry?

There is no mention in the feat which says anything about using them, or what happens if you select those feats later.

• RE: "It can slow down the game…." A cursory Web search reveals at least two proofs that can substantially speed up using the feat Sacred Geometry so that it's pretty much a guaranteed power-up. Just sayin'. That is, the feat should be shunned because it's supposed to be time-consuming not because it actually is. Commented Sep 29, 2018 at 21:02

## No

When casting a spell, you can perform the steps below to spontaneously apply the effects of either or both of these metamagic feats [...] to the spell [...]

You can take this feat more than once; each time, select two additional metamagic feats, adding their effects to the list of possible effects you can apply to spells with this ability.

(Emphasis mine)

These two lines seem to indicate that the Metamagic feats are only to be used for the process described in the Sacred Geometry feat.

It would be up to your DM to allow you to retrain the Metamagic feats you chose as part of Sacred Geometry if you chose them as full Metamagic feats later on.

Nothing says you can apply those two metamagics without "perform[ing] the steps below". So no, he wouldn't be able to.

If you take the metamagic feats later, logic wants it that you just don't benefit from that aspect of the Sacred Geometry feat anymore.