in chat, today this happened:

Sir Cinnamon - There once was a DnD Player / Who wished to be best goblin slayer/ For stats he rolled dice / The results were not nice / and now he's a humble brick layer

And I thought "wait, there was Pun-Pun, the Kobold, who ascended to godhood at lvl 1 in 3.5... but..."

Can a Pun-Pun actually be made in 5e?

Now, what is a Pun-Pun? Just an arbitrary Munchkin build? No, that is not what I wanted to go for. It's the self-made god-like being factor, that I am interested in. Arbitrary high stats are just one factor of godhood, what I always found most hilarious about the Pun-Pun-plan was the shenanigans that lead to him becoming a god or at least godlike being in the end.

Can a (non-divine1-intervention) ascension to (quasi-)Godhood happen at level 1? If not, what is the lowest level a Player Character can force its way into becoming a god or god-like-being?


1 - this is meant to include any higher being!

  • The link in KRyan's answer is still active, from this question – KorvinStarmast Oct 17 at 16:51
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    Is the question whether or not a character with infinite stats can be made through exploits in 5e, or whether the specific feats and classes used to make Pun-Pun in 3.5 will still interact the same way in 5e? – Gandalfmeansme Oct 17 at 16:54
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    @Trish what part of Pun-Pun are you trying to replicate? The no-limit ability scores, the access to any ability, or the godhood that you reference? Or something else? – David Coffron Oct 17 at 17:46
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    That makes @KRyan 's answer obsolete, as it is only referencing Pun-Pun's unique approach to acquiring divinity or divine-like status. If you want to include other methods of acquiring such power, I would remove the core question of Pun-Pun and use him only as an example. With a core question of "can a level 1 character achieve divinity/god-like power?" you might see more effort to finding such a build. Or even more conducive: "what is the lowest level a character in 5e can achieve divinity/god-like power?" – David Coffron Oct 28 at 4:03
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    (god-like power is different than divinity as evident by the fact that Asmodeus and Demogorgon are at least two creatures that contend with deities on the power scale, but are not deities themselves). I would suggest being sure of which you are after. – David Coffron Oct 28 at 4:05

Pun-pun relies on the very particular wording of the sarrukh’s manipulate form, the shapechange spell, and the share spells feature of familiars.

5e does not have its own printing of the sarrukh, so no wording is available to possibly abuse. The shapechange spell bars you from legendary abilities or lair actions, which manipulate form may well be. And familiars have no ability to share in your spells.

So every single factor that went into Pun-pun in 3.5e does not exist, or at least does not have crucial features. It is extremely unlikely that replacements for any of them will ever be published, either.

  • Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat. – mxyzplk Oct 28 at 4:50

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