Shoving (PHB p. 195) states:
Using the Attack action, you can make a special melee attack to shove a creature
Can the additional attack action granted by the haste spell also be used to shove a creature?
\$\begingroup\$
\$\endgroup\$
6
-
\$\begingroup\$ Surely you're better to use your "normal" attack to shove, then use the hasted action to attack the enemy on the floor (now with advantage) ? \$\endgroup\$– ErosRisingOct 30, 2018 at 13:56
-
1\$\begingroup\$ @ErosRising If you have Extra Attack, then wouldn't you want to use your hasted action to shove them, and then your "normal" attack to attack the enemy on the floor multiple times with advantage? \$\endgroup\$– Admiral JotaOct 30, 2018 at 14:07
-
\$\begingroup\$ @AdmiralJota Shove can replace one of your Extra attack-attacks, so using the haste-attack last still allows you to attack twice with advantage. Or I dunno, Grapple then shove with your normal/Extra attack then weapon-attack with haste now you're pinning the enemy to the ground by their neck. Haste doesn't enforce at what point in your turn you must take the extra action. \$\endgroup\$– ErosRisingNov 1, 2018 at 15:59
-
1\$\begingroup\$ @Exempt-Medic could you be more specific? How does 'one weapon attack only' require more analysis? Why is it insufficient to state that a shove is not a weapon attack? \$\endgroup\$– LovellNov 18, 2021 at 23:14
-
1\$\begingroup\$ @Lovell Because there are people who have analyzed it differently. This is an example. The current answer doesn't even describe what the phrase means or how it applies. Some answers to this question are other examples of the phrase being ambiguous. \$\endgroup\$– Exempt-MedicNov 18, 2021 at 23:19
|
Show 1 more comment
3 Answers
\$\begingroup\$
\$\endgroup\$
8
Haste states:
[...] it gains an additional action on each of its turns. That action can be used only to take the Attack (one weapon attack only) [...] action.
Shoving a creature is a:
[...] special melee attack [...]
but it's not stated to be a weapon attack.
Therefore, you cannot use your hasted action to shove a creature.
answered Oct 30, 2018 at 9:30
-
11\$\begingroup\$ While this is definitely the RAW, I feel the "one weapon attack only" was to prevent abuse with Extra Attack and the like. But since there's no proof of RAI, this is the better answer. I would definitely rule it differently, though. \$\endgroup\$ Oct 30, 2018 at 9:54
-
6\$\begingroup\$ It could be read as "if you use the Attack action to make a weapon attack then you only get one" rather than "you can only use the Attack action to make one weapon attack" (plus the other actions it states). It is a bit ambiguous. On the one hand, it specifically lists other actions such as Dodge etc but does not list Shove. On the other hand, it probably wouldn't hurt to allow it. \$\endgroup\$– PJRZOct 30, 2018 at 10:01
-
5\$\begingroup\$ @PJRZ It lists other actions such as Dodge because Dodge is its own action, whereas shoving replaces an attack and is not its own distinct action. \$\endgroup\$ Oct 30, 2018 at 19:22
-
6\$\begingroup\$ So, by extension, since unarmed attacks aren't weapon attacks, you can't use the hasted action to make an unarmed attack? That seems... wrong. I think that is pretty good reason to believe this was written to stop Extra Attack from being used, not from unarmed attacks or maneuvers, even if it isn't RAW. \$\endgroup\$– ESCEAug 29, 2021 at 3:56
-
4\$\begingroup\$ @Exempt-Medic golly that's a confusing distinction... but thanks for the clarification! \$\endgroup\$– ESCENov 18, 2021 at 18:13
\$\begingroup\$
\$\endgroup\$
The spell haste reads:
and it gains an additional action on each of its turns. That action can be used only to take the Attack (one weapon attack only), Dash, Disengage, Hide, or Use an Object action.
The shove is not counted in the rules as "weapon attacks", they are "special melee attacks".
Using the Attack action, you can make a special melee attack to shove a creature, either to knock it prone or push it away from you. If you're able to make multiple attacks with the Attack action, this attack replaces one of them.
And the same is true for grapple.
When you want to grab a creature or wrestle with it, you can use the Attack action to make a special melee attack, a grapple. If you're able to make multiple attacks with the Attack action, this attack replaces one of them.
Generally, rules mean what the common language means. Weapon attacks are attacks made with weapons, arguable meant to do damage to the target of the attack. We can see that in the designers intent is shown in the Sage Advice rule on smiting where it points out an odd exception to what is considered a weapon attack:
The game often makes exceptions to general rules, and this is an important exception: that unarmed strikes count as melee weapon attacks despite not being weapons.
Note that there is nothing in any texts granting an exception to Shove or Grapple that makes them weapon attacks, even if the one performing the shove or grapple uses the blunt edge of a weapon to do it -- they are still a "special melee attack."
answered Nov 19, 2021 at 4:18
\$\begingroup\$
\$\endgroup\$
0
Haste allows you to take the Attack action, but you can only make "one weapon attack".
A weapon attack is, as you can imagine, an attack made with a weapon. This is plain English, it's not a special game term.
Sometimes things that are not attacks with weapons are allowed to count as weapon attacks, for example the rules for unarmed attacks say that you can use use a punch (which is not a weapon) to make a weapon attack:
Instead of using a weapon to make a melee weapon attack, you can use an unarmed strike: a punch, kick, head-butt, or similar forceful blow (none of which count as weapons).
An errata also clarifies that while weapon attacks are attacks made with weapons, some things have rules that make them count as weapon attacks:
What does “melee weapon attack” mean: a melee attack with a weapon or an attack with a melee weapon? It means a melee attack with a weapon. Similarly, “ranged weapon attack” means a ranged attack with a weapon. Some attacks count as a melee or ranged weapon attack even if a weapon isn’t involved, as specified in the text of those attacks. For example, an unarmed strike counts as a melee weapon attack, even though the attacker’s body isn’t considered a weapon.
Here’s a bit of wording minutia: we would write “melee weapon attack” if we meant an attack with a melee weapon.
However, Shove isn't a weapon attack and it doesn't have any extra rules stating that it should count as one:
Using the Attack action, you can make a special melee attack to shove a creature, either to knock it prone or push it away from you.
Unfortunately since Shove isn't a weapon attack (it's a "special" attack) we can't use it with our Hasted Attack action.
It does seem a little strange since it's easy to imagine shoving someone with your weapon, but the rules don't state that is possible. If you are wielding a weapon and want to use it specifically to shove someone, talk to your DM, they may allow it!