I’m running a campaign and a character decided to change his goal from getting gun heels that are possessed by a demon (Bayonetta) to becoming third generation through diablerie. He’s made a deal with said demon in his heels (before the demon went in the heels) to become uneclipseable but I know that if at any point he wakes an Antediluvian the entire world will be screwed. I’m slowly “feeding” him elders, and I’m dreading when I have to bring an Antediluvian in. I’m almost certain that if I do throw an Antediluvian at him it’ll be the Ravnos Antediluvian as he’s bound to wake soon anyway.

How do I not kill the entire chantry with an Antediluvian?


Why do you have to "handle" this?

The player has agency. You can give him information that says that facing an antediluvian is a bad idea. You can telegraph all kinds of ways that should the antediluvian awaken, they're screwed.

It seems to me that high ambitions and poor judgement make for a very interesting chronicle.

Let the player have his agency.

If the rest of the party has a problem with this, they should take action in-game to stop it.

  • 2
    \$\begingroup\$ This answer should come with a warning that this style of play is not for everybody, honestly. A lot of parties have rules on interparty PvP. Allowing this kind of thing unless the rest of the players somehow stop him can easily kill the party and the game when in-character disputes turn into real life arguments about not letting Bayonetta-wannebe have his fun. \$\endgroup\$
    – Theik
    Nov 29 '18 at 12:53
  • \$\begingroup\$ Agree with @Theik. Definitely have a conversation with the whole party out of character first. You shouldn't let one player's ambition ruin the fun for everyone. If people are on board, that's a different story and gomad answer might well be suited \$\endgroup\$
    – resnet
    Nov 29 '18 at 13:17
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Theik - Are you suggesting the player who's liable to ruin the game (and the in-fiction world) for everyone because he's pursing his ambition doesn't need to get buy in from the rest of the group but the rest of the players need their permission to exercise their own agency? I really hope not. I guess I assumed there was already a session zero - Bayonetta has altered the deal. \$\endgroup\$
    – gomad
    Nov 29 '18 at 21:28
  • \$\begingroup\$ @gomad No, I'm more suggesting that as a DM going "well it's not my problem" can lead to a lot of interparty arguments and fights. A lot of groups would rather have the DM step in and go "hey, this is not a good idea and you're going to ruin the fun for everybody", than having to sort it out in character with a possible fight, and the backlash of that player now refusing to play with the people who killed their character. \$\endgroup\$
    – Theik
    Nov 29 '18 at 22:52

You don't.

You do want to wake Ravnos? Welcome to the end times! If the player wakes Ravnos, then the following happens canonically, and I strongly suggest you grab the books Gehenna, and maybe Apocalypse, Ascension and Time of Judgement, because this is where your fancy adventures is heading:

Ravnos awakens madly hungry and goes onto a rampage in India. This results in a massive battle with at first just 3 Cathayans, which creates the Week of Nightmares. Soon the other sides joined the fray, like traditions and weres... All the groups dance at the party early and it is a bloody mess. Only the Technocracy shows up late, but they do so and bring the solution in the shape of Void Engineer enhanced nuclear devices aka Spirit Nukes. In the end, the sun annihilates Ravnos. The nuke and battle annihilate every living being in a huge chunk of India. And every undead being. And every incorporeal being. Ravnos and his enemy still stand, so the Technocracy uses their giant space mirrors and glasses the whole area over a second time, destroying both sides.
The the result is, that all the Ravnos go crazy and end in the sun within a week. The world is closing in on total destruction: Russia burns in nuclear fire as an Antediluvian starts an all-out war against the Russian government. A huge chunk in the center of Vienna vanishes to nowhere. Mexico gets turned back into Tenochtitlán and the streets run knee deep in blood.

The only way not to kill the entire coterie by incoming world end is if the coterie ends this player that is hellbent on being one of the prophecies of Gehenna.

Much more clear summaries, that also don't gloss over stuff as blatantly for the Times of Judgement can be found here or in this answer while short notes are on wikipedia


The problem you have is that you don't want to break player agency, but you do want to continue running a fun adventure. I have some experience with this problem myself.

The solution I've found that works is to tell the player that I don't think he's a good match for my table, and ask him to leave the game. I did this twice; both times we played out the rest of the adventure and the other players thanked my afterwards.

Here is another thing which I've considered doing, but haven't tried yet: let him succeed and then invoke Parallel Worlds to keep the game going.

"Victory! It took a great struggle, but you've ignored all the warnings, slain all the guardians, and unbound all the seals. The Apocalypse is loosed upon the world!
(It kills you first, of course.)
We can imagine an observer, high above the planet, looking down at the horror you've unleashed. There's no visible blast wave, no explosion. There's just a circle in which the land has turned grey. There's no light, no life, no color, no movement; everything is dead. The circle expands to engulf the whole planet.
Congratulations! You've ended the world!

So here's the next question: how are we going to keep playing the game?
Well, as you know, there's not just one Earth -- there are a vast number of parallel Earths.
There's an Earth where magic doesn't exist; there's an Earth where you guys are all wizards. There's an Earth where you're all ponies. And, in particular, there's an Earth which is just like our current game, except that Bob's character never existed, so he's never destroyed the planet.
And we're going to continue our adventure by focusing on that Earth.
Thanks for playing with us, Bob!

Now. What are the rest of you doing?

  • \$\begingroup\$ While this is an interesting idea I'd personally get buy in from the players in advance of doing this. If I've roleplayed a character through the end of the world I'm not sure I'd want to then reset. And if bob never existed that sort of invalidates all the roleplay and what your character has been through... It might work from some people but if a GM did that to me with no warning I'd have to strongly consider whether I wanted to continue with an AU version of my character... \$\endgroup\$
    – Chris
    Nov 6 '18 at 12:26

Simple; Let him try. The anti is stronger and the diab fails; thus causing the anti to take over that character's body.

  • \$\begingroup\$ The OP is concerned about what impact letting them try will have on the setting, so "let them try" is a lot more trivially said than done. Do you have any experience-based advice to offer on that part? \$\endgroup\$ Dec 10 '18 at 9:06
  • \$\begingroup\$ The thing is that the player is uneclipseable due to a demon deal, so he could not be eclipsed \$\endgroup\$
    – Lexi Jacob
    Dec 10 '18 at 23:23

Your Answer

By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.