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Related to this question: Can I take a feat at level 1 if I use my skill points to meet the prerequisite skill ranks?, and specifically this rule text:

Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat. A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he or she gains the prerequisite.

We are allowed two flaws; that means we get 3 feats at level 1. Now, if I wanted to take 2 metamagic feats -- lets call them X and Y -- each with the prerequisite: any other metamagic feat.

Is it legal to take X and Y at first level, without taking any other metamagic feat?

After the character gained the level, both prerequisites are fulfilled. But one could reasonably argue that during the level-up process, they are not.

I say that, because 'A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he or she gains the prerequisite', this is OK.

Am I right or wrong?

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No.

Character Advancement
When adding new levels of an existing class or adding levels of a new class (see Multiclassing, below), make sure to take the following steps in order. First, select your new class level. You must be able to qualify for this level before any of the following adjustments are made. Second, apply any ability score increases due to gaining a level. Third, integrate all of the level's class abilities and then roll for additional hit points. Finally, add new skills and feats.

The order of how you level matters. You're allowed take a feat the same level you gain the prerequisites only because gaining feats is the last thing you do. If the prerequisite is a skill, spell, or ability, you already have it by the time you take the feat.

Of course, if the prerequisite is another feat, you must already have the prerequisite feat before you can take the desired feat. However, since character advancement is an ordered process, if you gain multiple feats in a level1, you can choose to take the prerequisite feat first. You can now take the desired feat.

In your example, you can take neither feat first since neither feat has its prerequisite met.


1 Class abilities that give bonus feats give them at the time you normally add new feats (after skill points). It's unclear if you choose your standard feat before your bonus feat or vice versa, but I would generally allow players to select feats in any order if it matters.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ At first level, though, is at character creation. Wouldn't taking both feats then be allowed? \$\endgroup\$
    – okeefe
    Apr 19 '12 at 19:29
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    \$\begingroup\$ @okeefe Character creation is also an ordered process. Note that the quote says "at the same level" and not "at the same time." \$\endgroup\$
    – dlras2
    Apr 19 '12 at 19:31

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