I'm constructing a god based on a video game boss to assist a DM friend of mine, which means that ultimately it is intended that the players may (or perhaps WILL) confront his avatar. Given this, I need to have some reasonable combat stats for the guy.

Some info:

  • Divine Rank: 25 (Over-Deity)
  • Determined equivalent level: 75
  • Base creature: Uuvadaum

My first thought was to take 20 levels of the Uuvadaum, and then apply 55 character levels above that with Epic rules for hit dice, hit bonus, etc.

However, never having created a creature of such stupendous level, I'm unsure as to if my guess here is right about the levels vis-a-vis a DR 25 god. (Well, his avatar effectively, anyway.)

The characters in this epic campaign at this point are expected to be lvl 40+, but anyhow, if I'm totally off base here, let me know.

Also for stats - would I pick the Uuvadaum's stats as the avatar's base and then apply the epic status bonuses + bonuses from other sources from the 55 levels? Or would this result in absurd and unreasonable stats at level 75?

So… many… questions. Thanks!


Note. this guy needs to be able to be taken on face to face. This means, yes, the players will have weapons or spells that can get past his DR. More of the issue is, what would be reasonable ability scores, hit points, armor class, hit bonuses, saves, etc, so that he would not be impossible to kill, but also not a pushover?

Probably I will end up adjusting him slightly before the final encounter to make sure he is not impossible, but I don't even have a rule of thumb to go by here to even make those adjustments.

  • 20
    \$\begingroup\$ "would this result in absurd and unreasonable stats at level 75". All stats are absurd and unreasonable at level 75. \$\endgroup\$ – C. Ross Apr 20 '12 at 14:24
  • \$\begingroup\$ Very funny! Though, not particularly helpful. Remember, Giygas technically was unkillable, unless you prayed hard enough. If the end boss isn't absurd, why is he so 'final'? But what I mean is, the Avatar can't be so far out of their league -- if that means I need to gimp him a little, that's fine. \$\endgroup\$ – user3317 Apr 20 '12 at 15:41
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ When you say "reasonable" what do you mean? Do you mean similar to other published deities, and / or the published rules (if such exist)? Do you mean stats that would lead to an interesting fight (and if so, at what level)? Etc. \$\endgroup\$ – AceCalhoon Apr 24 '12 at 21:46

You seem to be on the right track (at least so far as RAW is concerned). Rules for creating a god are laid out in the SRD:

Most deities are 20 HD outsiders with 30 to 50 character levels as well. These additional character levels beyond an effective character level of 20th follow the rules for epic levels.

Avatars are created via a divine feat. The stats are mostly the same as the base god's:

The avatar’s divine rank is half that of the deity (round down). This decrease in divine rank affects many of the avatar’s statistics and abilities, including bonuses to attack rolls, damage, saves, checks, and Armor Class, damage reduction, resistances, number of salient divine abilities and bonus salient divine abilities, uses per day of domain powers, saving throw DCs against spell-like abilities, range of senses, automatic actions, magic items it can create, and extent of divine aura. The deity’s ability scores, speed, class levels, and Hit Dice are unchanged.

Also for stats - would I pick the Uuvadaum's stats as the avatar's base and then apply the epic status bonuses + bonuses from other sources from the 55 levels?

The SRD contains rules for improving monsters. Specifically, increasing hit dice and adding class levels.

The order of operations you would be looking at is:

  • Take the Outsider's base stats.

  • Increase hit dice to 20.

  • Add 55 character levels.

  • Factor in divine bonuses of divine rank 25 (or 12 for an avatar).

The Uvuudaum is a little bit different in that it has more than 20 hit dice by default. The deity rules are silent on what to do in this case, but I would recommend subtracting class levels to make up for the additional hit dice (so, 38 hit dice and 37 class levels).

Or would this result in absurd and unreasonable stats at level 75?

That depends. The above will give you the RAW version of the god you've described. Whether or not such a god is a reasonable encounter for your party I cannot say.

  • \$\begingroup\$ The weird part is Uuvadaums are more than 20 hit dice already. What to do with that, exactly? \$\endgroup\$ – user3317 Apr 25 '12 at 18:12
  • \$\begingroup\$ @RiverC The rules don't really say. Personally, I'd reduce the number of class levels by the additional Outsider hit dice (so, 38 hit dice and 37 class levels). \$\endgroup\$ – AceCalhoon Apr 25 '12 at 18:54

Without laying out some cash for a source book, do it the hard way - trial and error. Get a willing accomplice, some copies of the PC character sheets, and run a few encounters until you feel that the Avatar is balanced enough for the actual campaign.

Playtesting - it's a good thing :)

  • \$\begingroup\$ FYI, seems like the source books wouldn't be much help either. I have plenty of money for source books, but not if they're going to collect dust. \$\endgroup\$ – user3317 May 3 '12 at 11:17

In the Faiths and Pantheons splatbook, you can find the full stats for more than 100 major and minor deities in the Forgotten Realms.

In addition to that, the free Faiths and Pantheons web enhancements on the wizards site (1, 2) offer some tips on challenging players with your deities.

  • \$\begingroup\$ How do you get access to the book? Do you need to buy it? If so, it's not really an answer to my question... \$\endgroup\$ – user3317 Apr 23 '12 at 19:34
  • \$\begingroup\$ Well, it is the official resource on the topic. And as its content is not open, I cannot reproduce it here. \$\endgroup\$ – Mala Apr 24 '12 at 8:58
  • \$\begingroup\$ Well, then my question is not answered! \$\endgroup\$ – user3317 Apr 24 '12 at 14:06
  • \$\begingroup\$ Well, if you don't want to accept the official material for this, I cannot really help. But anyway, D&D magic breaks down way before this, with quasi-unlimited divination and time stop and wish (as deities are wont to have). \$\endgroup\$ – Mala Apr 24 '12 at 14:32
  • 6
    \$\begingroup\$ The material is not unreachable, it's just not free. \$\endgroup\$ – Mala Apr 24 '12 at 17:34

Depending on how you (or your friend) wants the final encounter to go, it might be reasonable to say that the actual stats are simply absurdly high without necessarily spelling them out, BUT providing some weakness the characters can exploit.

Perhaps some specific weapons forged by another deity, perhaps long ago, they can retrieve tow hich he is particularly vulnerable. Or some way that the avatar can be trapped or driven away, such as a phobia that will drive him away or an area that saps away divine magic reducing the avatar to merely being a powerful hero, but not of high divine level. Perhaps even some psychological situation which would make it possible to reason with him, but only when he is confronted by an adorable kitten which saps away his rage.

  • \$\begingroup\$ Really, in character with the boss he represents, he needs to be able to be beat down. He never really dies so it's not a big deal (he just goes away for awhile.) \$\endgroup\$ – user3317 Apr 20 '12 at 16:27

Unless the players are of a level where they actually stand a chance of winning such a fight, then a God's stats should simply be "Don't roll a 1" for anything they're even remotely known for.

  • 2
    \$\begingroup\$ What about damage, hit points, etc? I don't have the given supplement (I've heard 3.5e is not very good on that part either) and I understand the idea of not providing an absurd list of skills - but it still doesn't answer some basic quantitative questions. \$\endgroup\$ – user3317 Apr 20 '12 at 16:14
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ The only resource I can think of is the Deities & Demigods book, which in 3e/3.5e is pretty much a way to turn any given Epic Level character into their own deity, usually starting at level 40 or so. While they have some stock deities they don't really give you much of a running start. \$\endgroup\$ – CatLord Apr 21 '12 at 0:19

If you want to construct a deity, you really want to consult Immortal's Handbook: Ascension and Immortal's Handbook: Epic Bestiary (vol.1). They can help you to easily construct a DR 25, DR 250 and even DR 2500 immortal if you want it.

  • 2
    \$\begingroup\$ Welcome to the site! Take the tour. Unlike a traditional discussion forum, here answers are supposed to address the question in its entirety. It's possible to turn this factoid into a full answer by, for example, demonstrating how the god in the question would look because of the Immortal's Handbook, especially if the god would look substantially different from what the other answers mention. Otherwise, I fear only recommending a resource will see this answer ignored or downvoted. Thank you for trying to help strangers, though, and have fun! \$\endgroup\$ – Hey I Can Chan May 24 '17 at 16:34