In the Classic World of Darkness' game line Hunter: the Reckoning the player characters are usually visited by some angelic looking beings. Or they get messages from them or otherwise communicate. At any rate, it's assumed that angels are sending them out to seek out and stop the evil and unnatural. But it's always been a bit vague with both the beings and the mission.

In the game line Demon: the Fallen, the titular demons are (also titular) fallen angels who escaped their imprisonment recently and just now being back and exploring our world. From their point of view, things have changed - not only with the passage of time, but there is a very distinct lack of God or the other of God's agents and former brethren and later opponents - the angels.

So, that puts the two game lines a bit at odds - one claims angels exist, others that they are very definitely not around any more. These two game lines do have angels as a core concept - other game lines tend to take different stances on this and it varies on the individual and the cosmology view, so it's not at all clear cut if there even are "angels" and whether angels are actual angels or something that looks like ones. So, I won't get into those.

My question is - has the Hunter: the Reckoning angelic beings ever been more or less definitively explained? Perhaps by in official sources but not in official books - e.g., blog post, interview, etc. Or have they always been left vague?

  • \$\begingroup\$ I'm pretty sure that the 'Angels' of the Reckoning are actually powerful Fallen from D:tF but since I can't substantiate that right now with book and page numbers, I'll leave it for now. If I find it, I'll provide the references in an answer. \$\endgroup\$ – user47897 Dec 18 '18 at 20:05
  • \$\begingroup\$ Hmm, I've never come across this interpretation. As far as I know, all the powerful Fallen that are on Earth from before 1999 are now Earthbound who are really evil and also on their way to basically becoming Cthulhu. Even Kuppala who is the source of the Koldunic sorcery for the Tzimisce was supposed to be one of them. If what you're saying is correct, then perhaps those are the Eathbound equivalent who didn't go down the "evil" route. \$\endgroup\$ – VLAZ Dec 18 '18 at 23:01
  • \$\begingroup\$ Well the Hunters of Reckoning didn't appear until after 1999 so it's suggestive to say the least \$\endgroup\$ – user47897 Jan 24 '19 at 20:39

This is neither confirmed nor denied in the fluff. In Time of Judgment, they are not tied to any specific creature type. Per WW usual policy, they tend to leave such things up to the GM.

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It is hard to prove a negative, but to the best of my knowledge the answer is it was left vague at all times. I have played both of those game lines and I don't recall anything that explicitly discussed possible connections between those lines.

This is not at all surprising since Classic World of Darkness was always very comfortable leaving a lot of things vague, especially when it came to interactions between the game lines. Even within an individual line, there was often much that was left deliberately vague about what was really true and what was merely believed by some faction within the line. (Looking at Mage in particular, the question of what "True" even meant could readily be raised...)

To the best of my knowledge, there is little information in hunter on what the angelic beings referenced in Hunter actually are, much less whether they are the same angels that are referenced in Demon: The Fallen.

Incidentally, while I don't have the book handy this second I also have to question your interpretation in Demon: The Fallen that "the very distinct lack of God or the other of God's agents" was a core concept of the game. As I recall, the gameline was clear that God was not intervening flagrantly and constantly and angels did not abound, but that is a far weaker statement. The book seemed to leave divine intervention and angelic appearance as an open possibility in my mind. I even vaguely recall one of the all too few supplements included information and creating stats for angels if the storyteller required and they were supposed to be very impressive compared to the Fallen.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ "As I recall, the gameline was clear that God was not intervening flagrantly and constantly and angels did not abound" I similarly have to find the books to get the exact quotes but there was a lot of fluff on how the newly escaped Fallen found no God and no angels around. Not as "they don't interfere" but literally "they don't seem to be around". They didn't feel them which they found extremely odd. One remarked on how there were no death angels to guide the souls to the afterlife like the olden times - everything died and it was just chaos afterwards, no order or comfort for the dead. \$\endgroup\$ – VLAZ Jan 25 '19 at 6:07
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    \$\begingroup\$ Furthermore, on the metaphysical side - reality had collapsed into a single layer according to the Fallen. According to their account, back in their day reality was in multiple layers and they operated in all. So, when they were creating the earth, spreading the breath of life around and similar in one layer, the same action was thousands of years of evolution and progress in another layer. This was an attempt of reconciling all gamelines and alternative history interpretations by groups - apparently they all happened to some extent even if they were mutually exclusive. \$\endgroup\$ – VLAZ Jan 25 '19 at 6:10

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