4
\$\begingroup\$

I've been looking around, and from what I understand, the Stealth rules seems to be kind of a sore point in D&D/Pathfinder systems.

What I'm getting at will require two separate questions (other one posted here) I haven't been able to find an answer to:

I'm mostly a Dex characters player, and thus have experimented a few builds (mainly Rogues, Strange, I know), one of which was a Sniper inspired from this thread. Its major draws are that Stealth protects you effectively from most attacks (most Dex builds I've made being squishy but having insane Reflex saves to escape AoE) and allows a Rogue to Sneak Attack and deal massive amounts of damage.

I couldn't locate the rule about the enchanted weapon used there, so I settled for a crouched crossbow and a bunch of feats to alleviate the -20 to Stealth check after firing. Main drawback is, it's really hard to hide again once you've been spotted, and things tend to get ugly when a close range character manages to reach your vicinity (Hello, big mean DR regenerating barbarian wielding a huge axe).

The fact that you need to be lying down to reduce the Stealth penalty means you need to get up before beginning to run, causing mobility problem. And the build requires a crossbow or a firearm - the former being incredibly inferior to longbow and the latter rarely allowed.

I was looking into interactions between Shadowdancers and Rogue Snipers for obvious reasons: the Shadowdancer have the Hide in Plain Sight feat, which allows to make a Stealth check once you've been spotted (and strangely does not indicate any kind of malus to your check regarding the fact you're in sight) and the Shadow Jump, for quick relocation/escape.

A teleporting sneaky sniper seems an interesting prospect, but I have two questions (other one here):

If I am to relocate/use a supernatural ability allowing teleportation while stealthing, do I need to make another Stealth checks?

The common agreement seems to be "new Stealth check on conditions change", which would probably apply here - even though using a supernatural ability does not usually require verbal/somatic components, and a relocation is not a movement.

I'm looking for RAW answers, though I suppose some DMs would be more or less lenient regarding this particular use.

PS: I'd like to add this bit of information (courtesy from this thread) which is a excerpt from this Jason Buhlman's post precising when and why Perception checks should occur during Stealth.

Couple of notes I want to add here...

  1. For simplicities sake, it should be assumed that those making Perception checks get to do so at the most favorable point during the movement of a character using Stealth, to avoid making checks every time the condition changes. Technically, I think you would get a check whenever the conditions change, but that might make things overly complicated during play.

Can this be considered as an answer, since relocation is indeed a change of conditions, even if it's not a movement?

\$\endgroup\$
1
\$\begingroup\$

You only require a new Stealth check if the are sensorial stimuli

It has been clarified how Stealth vs Perception works in Ultimate Intrigue (pg. 187), describing how active (like search for traps or hidden doors) and automatic perception (notice something sneaking behind you) works, which was somewhat of a reaction to the massive FAQs on the topic

There are two ways Perception checks happen in the game. The first way is automatic and reactive. Certain stimuli automatically call for a Perception check, such as a creature using Stealth (which calls for an opposed Perception check), or the sounds of combat or talking in the distance. The flip side is when a player actively calls for a Perception check because her PC is intentionally searching for something. This always takes at least a move action, but often takes significantly longer.

The Core Rulebook doesn’t specify what area a PC can actively search, but for a given Perception check it should be no larger than a 10-foot-by-10-foot area, and often a smaller space if that area is cluttered. For instance, in an intrigue-based game, it is fairly common to look through afiling cabinet full of files. Though the cabinet itself might fill only a 5-foot-by-5-foot area, the number of files present could cause a search to take a particularly long time.

Since the Shadow Jump ability has no visual or audible effects (for being a supernatural ability), the only possible stimulus would happen if you teleport in the line of sight of a creature, allowing them to see your character before you move into cover, which also would require a Stealth check due to the sound of your movement either way. If your character does nothing that any of the creature senses (including tremorsense, blindsense, scent, etc) could notice, you do not need to make a new Stealth check because the creature is not allowed a new Perception check to oppose it.

Your senses are also divided between precise and imprecise, which will vary depending on the creature. Imprecise senses may locate a hidden creature (pinpoint their position), while precise senses are required for targeting purposes (you have to see to cast a ranged spell on a target).

Most humanoids have a precise vision but imprecise scent and hearing. Tremorsense, scent and blindsense are also examples of imprecise senses. While being noticed by a precise sense, you normally cannot use Stealth against that creature, which is a restriction removed by Hide in Plain Sight.

A sneaking character needs to avoid all of an opponent’s precise senses in order to use Stealth, and for most creatures, that means vision. (...) The hide in plain sight class ability allows a creature to use Stealth while being observed and thus avoids this whole situation

And as long as you finish your movement in cover, you may remain hidden, even if you become observed during this movement. Of course, if you dont have Hide in Plain Sight, you cannot Stealth again, as such you must not become observed if you wish to remain hidden.

That said, the mere act of teleporting does not require a new opposed check unless you are being observed by the creature at the destination, or if you move after teleporting, or if you make an attack after teleporting, or if you talk after teleporting. In other words, if you are not making any noise and not being observed, no check is required.

This may change based on the creature's senses. A dog, for having an imprecise scent, may pinpoint your location if you are within the ability's range, and as such, able to detect your character even after a teleport.

\$\endgroup\$
0
\$\begingroup\$

Well, i don't think there is a rule out there for this, but if i were the GM, i would make my player re-roll the stealth check if their situation had changed (e.g forest to urban) but not if it was a similar place (e.g forest to jungle).

\$\endgroup\$
-3
\$\begingroup\$

I am going to refer you to this thread from a few years back. Its for 5e, but the principle of stealth mechanics still holds true between systems. He has a lot of good points that may help you, but I'm not sure you are going to find a perfect RAW answer to this.

Relevant part would be:

The only ways that a character ceases to be hidden is if somebody finds them (and communicates this to others who have not found them) by beating the Dexterity (Stealth) check with a Wisdom (Perception) check or if the character "stop[s] hiding" - a conscious choice. A new Dexterity (Stealth) check is only called for when you want to hide again after being discovered or circumstances change such that your method of hiding is no longer appropriate (e.g. you were hiding in a crowd which disperses, you move from a paved area to an area covered with fallen branches and leaves) or you engage in an activity which clearly increases your chance of being noticed (e.g. running with the Dash action).

If you are hidden, and you teleport(using a SLA or other completely silent & still form) to another spot where you have equal bonus/penalty to your hide result, I would say your circumstances haven't changed at all. As the thread says, your roll remains relevant until they either found you or you perform an action that blatantly breaks your stealth (like stabbing a guy right in the face, or shooting off a roman candle firework).

As for any issues between pathfinder/3.5 and 5e rules, the concept of stealth hasn't changed between the systems. Paizo took the rules from 3.5 to make pathfinder, and Wizards hasn't really changed stealth since 3rd edition.

\$\endgroup\$
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ Please note the question you've linked to and are basing your answer on is for D&D 5e and thus not relevant since this is a Pathfinder question. \$\endgroup\$ – Purple Monkey Jan 9 at 23:58
  • 2
    \$\begingroup\$ I think the claim that stealth works the same in two incompatible games needs more support than just assertion. \$\endgroup\$ – SevenSidedDie Jan 10 at 0:16
  • \$\begingroup\$ @PurpleMonkey You are correct and I edited my answer for that. My reasoning though was that the thread answered it quite well and the functionality of stealth have pretty much held between both systems. \$\endgroup\$ – Semada Jan 10 at 0:16
  • \$\begingroup\$ @SevenSidedDie I would hardly call the two systems incompatible. Most of the basics from Pathfinder/3.5 are still there in 5e. Some almost word for word, others renamed. When I read the two entries for stealth in both systems I see they both essentially function they same way. You make a stealth check and you remain hidden until your stealth check is beaten by an opposed perception check or you perform an action that directly breaks your stealth. \$\endgroup\$ – Semada Jan 10 at 0:22
  • \$\begingroup\$ That’s the sort of support I mean should be in the post. :) \$\endgroup\$ – SevenSidedDie Jan 10 at 0:40

Your Answer

By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.