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My group and I are all brand new. We've just made it through several fight against goblins and hobgoblins and recovered a few rusty short swords, a few rusty daggers and a knackered spear. I'm playing a Cleric of the Forge and I have just reached level 2 and have access to Artisan's Blessing.

If these weapons weren't rusted and mistreated, the total price of buying them would be 30gp. Obviously in this condition they're no longer worth that much. Can they still be used to make a 30gp item, for example a great axe?

To put it another way: If I buy 30gp worth of daggers I can use Artisan's Blessing to turn them into a Great Axe worth 30gp. If I take the same 30gp worth of daggers and leave them out in the rain until they start to rust can I still make the Great Axe or not?

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Artisan's Blessing handles rusted and mistreated weapons the same way it handles everything else - based on the worth of the raw materials they contain.

According to Artisan's blessing:

you must lay out metal, …, with a value equal to the creation (XGTE)

The spell isn't interested in the value of the items you lay out, it's interested in the value of the metal that they are manufactured from. This is not the same thing. For example (credit to Dale):

'A new sword is worth 15gp (7.5gp used) and weighs 3 lbs - most of which is steel. That is the value of a longsword [and a large part of the cost will be based on the workmanship that's normally necessary to craft it]. How much is 3 lbs of steel worth? Say 1gp maximum.'

So, rusted weapons certainly won't be worth the item's full price, but they shouldn't even be worth the half price that you might normally get from an in-game vendor for a usable second hand weapon. A heavily rusted weapon is no use to anyone except someone that wants to make use of it's raw materials (ie. a Forge Cleric).

Exactly how much these raw materials are worth is going to be up to your DM.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ So, by your interpretation, could I use the spell to spend a couple of hours knocking out swords and sell them for a profit? \$\endgroup\$ – Peregrine Lennert Feb 20 at 15:27
  • \$\begingroup\$ I was talking about using Artisan's blessing, which takes an hour and will produce a sword at the end of it \$\endgroup\$ – Peregrine Lennert Feb 20 at 15:36
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    \$\begingroup\$ Ah, sorry. Well yes and no. You always need to provide metal or coinage of equal value in order to use Artisan's blessing - so Artisan's blessing does not add value exactly. But, it's likely to be easier to sell 30g worth of useful items compared to 30g worth of scrap. They'll probably be easier to transport in the meantime too. \$\endgroup\$ – Tiggerous Feb 20 at 15:42
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    \$\begingroup\$ While it's possible for the raw material to be worth more than the object it's made into (e.g. copper pennies, silver dollars), usually the opposite is true - the object is more valuable than its constituent parts. \$\endgroup\$ – Martin Carney Feb 20 at 18:28
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No.

RAW, Artisan's Forge does not change or create value.

As part of this ritual, you must lay out metal, which can include coins, with a value equal to the creation.

A monster's weapons are generally considered valueless (PHB 144):

Weapons and armor used by monsters are rarely in good enough condition to sell.

Common sense could argue that the metal in the sword should be worth something, but if that was true you would be able to sell them for that amount. Common sense could also argue that you should be able to use less than 15gp of metal in order to craft a longsword (since the blacksmith's labor should have some value), but that is still not what Artisan's Blessing says, since it goes by the value of the end product, not the value of the materials used.

If your DM wishes to say the metal in them is worth something, then could use the same number of rusted swords to create a new, usable sword as you would need to sell to buy a new, usable sword, so Artisan's Blessing is still not generating any value (though it could be used in a dungeon or somewhere else you would not be able to buy or sell swords).

But going around looting every monster's weapons and armor after a battle is simply something most DMs do not want to deal with.


To answer the additional question that was edited in, by RAW, if you bought 30gp of daggers you could turn them into a 30gp greataxe. However, if you left the daggers out in the rain until they rusted into worthlessness, you could not turn them into a 30gp greataxe, or indeed, even a single 2gp dagger.

Similarly, there's no consideration of mass or size, only a somewhat arbitrary absolute sense of value: if you assume that coins are equal in value to their base metal (that is, 50 coins are worth a pound of that metal, as per PHB 143), you can turn 0.002 pounds of platinum into two pound of copper. Or, you could have a pound of gold, worth 50gp, that is used by a competent metalsmith to craft a piece of jewelry worth 100gp, which could then be converted into two pounds of gold.

That's magic for you.

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I don't see why it shouldn't work. It just says

As part of this ritual, you must lay out metal, which can include coins, with a value equal to the creation

so if you have 30gp worth of metal in any form, you can turn it into any form worth 30gp.

Now in terms of whether you can remove rust and damage from a weapon, if I were your GM, I would allow you to remove the rust for free, and depending on the level of damage, I would have you use about 5gp worth of metal to repair a moderate amount of damage.

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you must lay out metal, …, with a value equal to the creation

So:

  1. Are your weapons pure metal? If not, you must first strip the non-metal off them. (I'd argue rust counts as metal)

  2. What is their value?

In D&D, the game assumes things have an absolute value.

The value of a rusted crappy sword is that of a rusted crappy sword, not that of a clean sword. If you clean the rust off, the value of the remaining sword remains a constant.

It doesn't say 'scrap value' or 'value as raw metal', it asks for the value of the things layed out.

You can have 10 gp in raw gold carefully crafted into a 100 gp value figurine. You can then use the Artisan's blessing to turn this into a 100 gp bar of gold or suit of armor.

Similarly, if those rusted swords are worth 1/4 as much as a normal sword after you strip the non-metal parts (like the binding or the grip), you can use Artisan's blessing to convert it into a gold bar whose value (in weight) is equal to the sum of the weapon's value. It'll be reduced by the damage the weapon has taken, but it will be far less bulky.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ I guess magic is magic, but having the conserved quantity be "intrinsic value" rather than mass really exposes how game-mechanicy this ability is with your examples. It just seems super weird to me that carving some details scrollwork into a bar of metal will let you make a larger item out of it, because it's a better raw material. It's supposed to be Forge-related, not bartering trading it to your god in exchange for an item of equal value. (I think the "equal value" rule wording was supposed to be just an approximation for the right amount of raw material.) \$\endgroup\$ – Peter Cordes Feb 20 at 18:28
  • \$\begingroup\$ @PeterCordes You are sacrificing valuables to a god of the forge; does it really seem wrong that a decorated, well crafted sacrifice is worth more? \$\endgroup\$ – Yakk Feb 20 at 19:12
  • \$\begingroup\$ I guess that's the only way of looking at it that makes sense. I wanted the flavour to be "you are granted the power to reshape metal" (you do the crafting), not "sacrifice stuff in exchange for other stuff" (your god does the crafting). \$\endgroup\$ – Peter Cordes Feb 20 at 19:20
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    \$\begingroup\$ @PeterCordes You can turn a plat coin into a pile of metal stock, quite clearly by RAW. And the plat coin (same weight as a gold coin) makes 10 times as much metal stock. \$\endgroup\$ – Yakk Feb 20 at 19:24
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Based on the description of the spell

The metal irretrievably coalesces and transforms into the creation at the ritual's end

From my interpretation of this spell, you place some metal into the space of which you cast the ritual. That metal is then reformed to create the new item, so it would inherit the state of the material it was made from.

You can create something worth no more than 100GP. This would be worth 100GP in perfect condition. So when putting the limitation on the spell it must be worth that new, but that does not mean your item will be worth that

Because you are using rusted and tattered object to create this axe, the axe you created would not be worth 30GP as it was created with rusted metal and would be rusted itself.

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    \$\begingroup\$ The main issue I have with this answer is that the rust doesn't permeate the weapon, it's mainly on the outside. Rusted iron can be melted down in the real world to produce normal iron. The only potential issue with this is you might end up with a lot of slag, but I couldn't find a source for if that was just a byproduct of a specific process or not. Considering, though, that this is a magical process, we can assume there is no slag and thus, there is no issue. \$\endgroup\$ – Peregrine Lennert Feb 20 at 14:22
  • \$\begingroup\$ @PeregrineLennert I would argue that if you wanted the item in better condition you could work the metal first to bring it into a better state. While it is magic, coalesces means "come together to form one mass or whole", so I would resolve this by the metal being use in its current state. That said, if I was playing a game and someone else ruled the metal is not rusted, I would be fine with that too. This is just my interpretation of the rule and how do it in my game. \$\endgroup\$ – SaggingRufus Feb 20 at 14:42
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    \$\begingroup\$ -1 for the last sentence alone. There is no text to support it. \$\endgroup\$ – T.J.L. Feb 20 at 19:05

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