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My party has recently slain a Linnorm Dragon and we would very much like to raise it as a Juju Zombie, thus having something really hard to kill as a frontline. The problem is that if the caster doesn't control it, we just unleashed in the world something we hardly can stop, due all the resistances as Juju zombie and Dragon type.

So, I was wondering if there is any way to debuff the Will save of the corpse-that-will-soon-be-undead. (Keep in mind that Linnorm Dragons are immune to curses.)

As for the source material, we are using the PF Core, Advanced Player's Guide and Ultimate Magic and Combat.

Thank you very much.

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    \$\begingroup\$ Welcome! You can take the tour as an introduction to the site and check the help center for further guidance. Although the title question states "without any risk", the body is just trying to lower the will save of the creature. Are you only interested in ways that make sure there is absolutely no risk involved or is lowering the will save (reducing the risk) enough? \$\endgroup\$
    – Sdjz
    May 8, 2019 at 14:10
  • \$\begingroup\$ What method of control are you intending to use? \$\endgroup\$
    – Ifusaso
    May 8, 2019 at 19:41
  • \$\begingroup\$ Note that Juju Zombie overrides the Dragon type with the Undead Type (which is worse for your party). \$\endgroup\$
    – willuwontu
    May 8, 2019 at 20:30
  • \$\begingroup\$ Also, which Linnorm are you looking to raise/subdue? I'm not positive it's important, but it might be. \$\endgroup\$
    – Ifusaso
    May 8, 2019 at 23:06
  • \$\begingroup\$ @williamporter Why do you say that? Undead have numerous defensive traits... dragons are immune to paralysis and magical sleep (as are undead). It retains all of the other abilities it once had. Granted, any undead is a target of choice for Good divine type people who have abilites that will affect the undead more, but it's not as though they have a choice in that aspect. The thing is already dead. \$\endgroup\$
    – Ifusaso
    May 8, 2019 at 23:12

3 Answers 3

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Stop it before it's created

You could use manacles, traps, rope, chains, cages and all sort of mundane and magical contraptions to keep the creature restrained while you use your Command and/or Control Undead abilities to gain control. Masterwork manacles have a Strength DC of 28, while Mithril manacles have a DC of 30 and are naturally more durable. A Sawtooth Bear Trap has a Strength DC of 32.

While those aren't checks too difficult for such a creature, they would require multiple checks to escape all of them, giving you enough time to apply debuffs and try to control it again.

If the undead is created while already trapped inside a Crushing Cage Trap, it can't possibly get out of it without help. Though this trap specifically is limited to a 10-foot square area.

Spells like Shackle may also help with that. Consecrate helps lowering their saves for as long as they remain in the area. While Prayer will apply a penalty to all enemies regardless of their level or stats.

If your caster level is higher than the creature's HD, you could try using Undead Ward to prevent it from passing through the designed area. Considering they are Linorm dragons, that is unlikely though. But spells like Leashed Shackles, or even Forcecage have better odds at succeeding.

Other class's abilities

Void school wizards (Dragon Empires Primer) also may reduce saving throws of any creatures with no saving throw to resist it. Clerics with the Madness domain have a similar ability, and those with the Chaos domain may force a creature to roll two dice and take the lowest result.

Mesmerists may also apply a penalty to saving throws using their Hypnotic Stare if they also got Psychic Inception.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ Note that the evil eye hex doesn't work as the Undead type grants immunity to mind-affecting effects. A mesmerist needs psychic inception to affect them with their hypnotic stare. \$\endgroup\$
    – willuwontu
    May 8, 2019 at 20:26
  • \$\begingroup\$ Right, Evil Eye was errata'ed to be a mind-affecting effect. \$\endgroup\$
    – ShadowKras
    May 8, 2019 at 20:54
  • \$\begingroup\$ Greater Hide from Undead offers some protection as well. Attempting to command/control it only grants it another save to see through GHfU, rather than ending the effect, so it would need to succeed on both the save vs command/control and the save vs GHfU to be a threat. \$\endgroup\$
    – Oblivious Sage ♦
    May 8, 2019 at 21:08
  • \$\begingroup\$ @ObliviousSage Their concern seems to be both for the party and the world at large (who wants a rampaging dracolich anyway?) \$\endgroup\$
    – Ifusaso
    May 9, 2019 at 12:34
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Ifusaso In my party an escaped rampaging dracolich we had created and failed to control would result in everyone looking at each other and saying, "Well, that's somebody's else's problem. Time to Greater Teleport to another continent and start a new plot line." \$\endgroup\$
    – Oblivious Sage ♦
    May 9, 2019 at 12:40
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For some of the most common ways, it's kind of too late when it is already dead. I don't know of any WIS draining abilities that work on corpses. Though a Wish may be able to lay in a WIS lowering Curse on a corpse.

You could work at it from the other direction. You can increase the DC by Feats to raise your DC and by using Metamagic to increase the effective spell level of the spell.

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Well, maybe a Limited Wish that lowers by 7 the dragon's next Will save (against control undead)? It's one of the few spells I found the crag juju linnorm isn't immune...

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  • \$\begingroup\$ Welcome! You can take the tour as an introduction to the site and check the help center for further guidance. \$\endgroup\$
    – Sdjz
    May 10, 2019 at 10:57

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