1
\$\begingroup\$

The Improvised Weapon Mastery feat says:

Increase the amount of damage dealt by the improvised weapon by one step (for example, 1d4 becomes 1d6) to a maximum of 1d8 (2d6 if the improvised weapon is two-handed)

The Shikigami Style feat says:

While in this style, you deal damage with improvised weapons as if they were one size category larger. For every style feat you have that lists Shikigami Style as a prerequisite, treat the improvised weapon as an additional size category larger, to a maximum of three sizes larger than its actual size.

Would these two feats stack? And how would it affect the damage dice if used with a frying pan, for example?

\$\endgroup\$
5
\$\begingroup\$

No, they do not stack.

The Size Stacking FAQ states:

Size increases and effective size increases: How does damage work if I have various effects that change my actual size, my effective size, and my damage dice?

As per the rules on size changes, size changes do not stack, so if you have multiple size changing effects (for instance an effect that increases your size by one step and another that increases your size by two steps), only the largest applies. The same is true of effective size increases (which includes “deal damage as if they were one size category larger than they actually are,” “your damage die type increases by one step,” and similar language). They don’t stack with each other, just take the biggest one. However, you can have one of each and they do work together (for example, enlarge person increasing your actual size to Large and a bashing shield increasing your shield’s effective size by two steps, for a total of 2d6 damage).

Improvised Weapon Mastery states:

Increase the amount of damage dealt by the improvised weapon by one step

Which would fall under the similar language portion of the FAQ for effective size increases.

Given that Shikigami Style states:

While in this style, you deal damage with improvised weapons as if they were one size category larger. For every style feat you have that lists Shikigami Style as a prerequisite, treat the improvised weapon as an additional size category larger, to a maximum of three sizes larger than its actual size.

The clause in the FAQ about taking the highest effective size increase applies, and you would take the larger of the two, which will always be shikigami style since it will be the same or larger than improvised weapon mastery.

\$\endgroup\$
  • \$\begingroup\$ I read that paragraph as saying the opposite - size increases don't stack with each other, weapon die increases don't stack with each other, but you can have one size increase and one weapon die increase at the same time and they stack: "However, you can have one of each and they do work together" \$\endgroup\$ – Cubic yesterday
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Cubic That's not the opposite—that's what it says. This answer says that since neither the feat Improvised Weapon Mastery nor the feat Shikigami Style actually increase the weapon's physical size and only increase the weapon's effective size (by increasing the damage dealt in steps), the two feat's effects don't stack, the bigger increase subsuming the smaller. \$\endgroup\$ – Hey I Can Chan yesterday
  • \$\begingroup\$ @HeyICanChan I don't quite understand how that's different from the Enlarge Person/Bashing thing mentioned in the same paragraph which is explicitly called out as something that does stack. \$\endgroup\$ – Cubic yesterday
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ @Cubic The spell enlarge person really and truly increases the actual physical size of the weapon the enlarged creature wields, while the bashing magic shield special ability only increases the effective size of the shield by just increasing the shield's damage in steps. One damage increase is due to the real size change, the other damage increase is due to a virtual size change. The game says that to determine damage take only the biggest single actual size increase and add it to only the biggest single virtual size increase. \$\endgroup\$ – Hey I Can Chan yesterday
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Cubic Enlarge person is an actual size increase, the shield (and other equipment you're wearing) becomes that size category. Bashing is an effective size increase, the shield deals damage as if it were 2 size categories bigger. Altogether this makes for a shield that deals damage 3 size categories bigger than normal. Both shikigami style and improvised weapon mastery are effective size increases, which means that only the largest applies (in this case it will always be shikigami style). \$\endgroup\$ – william porter yesterday
2
\$\begingroup\$

No bonuses of the same type such as size category stack, they use the highest value bonus and ignore the lower.

Everything I saw on the paizo forums seems to say it isn't a size increase on improved weapon mastery, so in that case it stacks.

Keep in mind no dev has chimed in on this so everyone talking about it could be wrong.

Of course it also seems to state that those two feats wouldn't work well together as the improved weapon mastery can increase the damage to a max of 1d8 and if you took several feats in the Shikigami style tree, improved weapon mastery would cease granting a bonus.

\$\endgroup\$
  • \$\begingroup\$ Is the Improvised weapon mastery a size bonus though? The reason I thought they might stack was due to the untyped nature of it. It raises the damage dice however doesn't speak at all of size. \$\endgroup\$ – Richard Fitzinwell May 9 at 2:57
  • \$\begingroup\$ Checked the paizo forum. The consensus seems to be Improvised Weapon Mastery isn't a size increase bonus. In that case they would stack. \$\endgroup\$ – Kronos106 May 9 at 3:01
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ It would be better if you included the rules justification in your answer for why it isn't a size increase bonus; preferably by including quotes/references from the books. Also, no need to mark your edits, simply edit it to be the best possible version of your answer (there is an edit history built into the site). \$\endgroup\$ – Someone_Evil yesterday
0
\$\begingroup\$

Seems like you get the damage increase: meaning a bowling/juggling pin would do d8 instead of d6 (as a club).

Then you'd increase the size by thee steps, 2d6, 3d6, 4d6. Alternately you'd do 8d6? with a 2H item.

Of course, you COULD already do this with a large table and a decent carry capacity (fullback cords+heavy load belt), or say an anvil. Then crank up the size.

What this doesn't seem to attack with is enlarge person...? The other interesting thing is shikigami works with THROWN improvised weapons also.

Also note, one die larger is not one size larger (which skips one die larger if the base is d8 or more). So they aren't even applied the same.

New contributor
Marcel is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering. Check out our Code of Conduct.
\$\endgroup\$
  • \$\begingroup\$ Hello and welcome to rpg.se, please take the tour and back-up your assertions. \$\endgroup\$ – Akixkisu yesterday

Your Answer

By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.