9
\$\begingroup\$

The Grapple action states:

Requirements You have at least one free hand. Your target cannot be more than one size larger than you.

You attempt to grab an opponent with your free hand. Attempt an Athletics check against their Fortitude DC. You can also Grapple to keep your hold on a creature you already grabbed.

Critical Success Your opponent is restrained until the end of your next turn unless you move or your opponent Escapes (page 470).

Success Your opponent is grabbed until the end of your next turn unless you move or your opponent Escapes.

Failure You fail to grab your opponent. If you already had the opponent grabbed or restrained using a Grapple, those conditions on that creature end.

Critical Failure If you already had the opponent grabbed or restrained, it breaks free. Your target can either grab you, as if it succeeded at using the Grapple action against you, or force you to fall and land prone.

Similarly, Snagging Strike is worded as:

Requirements You have one hand free, and your target is within reach of that hand.

You combine an attack with quick grappling moves to throw an enemy off balance as long as it stays in your reach. Make a Strike while keeping one hand free. If this Strike hits, the target is flat-footed until the start of your next turn or until it’s no longer within the reach of your hand, whichever comes first.

Finally, Combat Grab is worded as:

Requirements You have one hand free, and your target is within reach of that hand.

You swipe at your opponent and grab at them. Make a melee Strike while keeping one hand free. If the Strike hits, you grab the target using your free hand. The creature remains grabbed until the end of your next turn or until it Escapes, whichever comes first.

All three of these actions seem to be unclear on the "state" of the free hand that is doing the grabbing while the target is afflicted with the Grabbed condition. It is clear that the attacker usually must remain within reach of the target, but it is only implied that the hand remains occupied for the duration and unable to be used for other actions.

The intent with this question is to determine if it is possible to Grapple/Snagging Strike/Combat Grab a target with one action, and then follow up with Double Slice (which has a requirement of "You are wielding two melee weapons, each in a different hand."). The character would be wielding a melee weapon in one hand, and a gauntlet with the free-hand and agile qualities in the other, thus meeting the two melee weapon requirement (as the gauntlet counts as a simple melee weapon, working past the unarmed attack not counting as a weapon), as well as the free hand requirement for the grapple action.

\$\endgroup\$
2
+200
\$\begingroup\$

This works, but probably not the way that you want it to.

Let's start by looking at the relevant portion of Double Slice:

Requirements You are wielding two melee weapons, each in a different hand.

You lash out at your foe with both weapons. Make two Strikes, one with each of your two melee weapons, each using your current multiple attack penalty...

You are holding a melee weapon that doesn't require two hands in one hand and you are wearing a gauntlet on the other hand. Now let's look at what qualifies as Wielding:

Some abilities require you to wield an item, typically a weapon. You’re wielding an item any time you’re holding it in the number of hands needed to use it effectively. When wielding an item, you’re not just carrying it around — you’re ready to use it...

You are holding the one-handed melee weapon with one hand, and the gauntlet is being worn on your other hand. You have met the requirements for wielding both the one-handed melee weapon and the gauntlet, and thus have met the requirements for Double Slice.

The gauntlet has the Free-Hand trait:

This weapon doesn’t take up your hand, usually because it is built into your armor. A free-hand weapon can’t be Disarmed. You can use the hand covered by your free-hand weapon to wield other items, perform manipulate actions, and so on. You can’t attack with a free-hand weapon if you’re wielding anything in that hand or otherwise using that hand. When you’re not wielding anything and not otherwise using the hand, you can use abilities that require you to have a hand free as well as those that require you to be wielding a weapon in that hand. Each of your hands can have only one free-hand weapon on it.

This allows you to use your gauntlet hand for actions that require a free hand, such as Grapple, Snagging Strike, or Combat Grab. However, performing a Double Slice after a Grapple or Combat Grab will end the effects of the previous action, due to this section of the Free-Hand rule:

You can’t attack with a free-hand weapon if you’re wielding anything in that hand or otherwise using that hand.

Grapple states:

You attempt to grab an opponent with your free hand.

(Emphasis mine)

Similarly, the wording for Combat Grab is:

If the Strike hits, you grab the target using your free hand.

(Emphasis mine)

These highlighted sections clearly indicate that your free hand is now being used or occupied, which prevents you from being able to attack using that hand. You may have met the requirements for Double Slice, but the specific rule that your Free-Hand weapon cannot attack while being used is overriding the more general rule that you can Strike with each of your weapons (in accordance with Pathfinder's Specific Beats General game convention).

In order to be able to use Double Slice, you would have to Release whatever you're holding with your free hand as a free action, ending the effect of the Grapple or Combat Grab.

Your Grapple or Combat Grab would end, but not your Snagging Strike

The Snagging Strike action has no such limitations within its wording, however, which means that you can, by RAW, use it and then Double Slice while keeping its effects. I'd like to imagine that a fighter grabs, tugs, and releases a creature while using this action, using several small grabs that don't rely on keeping a continuously hold. While the creature is within your reach, you can keep it off-balance for the duration.

| improve this answer | |
\$\endgroup\$
2
\$\begingroup\$

I've encountered a situation like this while GMing for a group of friends. I ruled that freehand used for the grapple is occupied as it needs to be used to continue hold onto the creature. To make the attack with the gauntlet would require you to let go therefore releasing the grapple but according to the core rules the grapple can be released as a free action so if you have a second attack available you could release what you're grappling then double slice it but then whatever you where grappling wouldn't be restrained anymore so what would be the point. I do think you would be able to follow snagging strike up with a double slice, as it imposes the flat-footed condition not the grabbed condition, but not combat grab and the grapple action.

Now important note this is just my interpretation of the rules and since it is so unclear I'd say that it's really up to your GM for the final ruling on this.

| improve this answer | |
\$\endgroup\$

Your Answer

By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.