# Can you create scrolls with a caster level higher than your own?

I am aware that other magic items like wondrous are able to be created without meeting the CL by increasing the DC (looking at you pearl of power with CL 17)

Under the magic item creation rules

A creator can create an item at a lower caster level than her own, but never lower than the minimum level needed to cast the needed spell

So its clear that a scroll could be made with a lower CL, but I have not found anything about being able to use a CL you dont have.

I had asked another question about creating a scroll for a level you cant cast, and the only answer so far is saying no due to the casting counting as a pre-req. Would CL also be considered another thing that you MUST posses?

• You know that caster level is already not a requirement for creating most magic items, including the pearl of power, right? (Also see, for example, here and here.) Sep 28, 2019 at 16:08
• The question is about scrolls, just using the pearl as an example, and I thought it was so you would increase the DC by 5 to ignore that. Sep 28, 2019 at 17:42
• The second link includes some info I didnt notice before Sep 28, 2019 at 17:45
• @HeyICanChan there's an FAQ specifically for pearls of power caster level prereq. Though it's vague on whether it's a CL req or a able to cast spells of x Level req. Sep 28, 2019 at 18:31
• @williamporter I'm not sure it is that vague: "Though the listed Caster Level for a pearl of power is 17th, that caster level is not part of the Requirements listing for that item. Therefore, the only caster level requirement for a pearl of power is the character has to be able to cast spells of the desired level." I mean, you're right though if you're saying that everything after that in that FAQ entry is kinda mush. (I'm not sure what good it does to say in a FAQ, "It makes sense…," when what the FAQ is supposed to do is, y'know, answer the frequently asked question. :-)) Sep 29, 2019 at 0:30

# Technically, Yes.

The rules for Crafting Scrolls only require that the spell is supplied for the scroll, you have the Scribe Scroll feat, and that you succeed on your check to craft the item.

This means that a level 1 wizard with 11 intelligence could attempt to craft a Ccaster Level 20 scroll of Enlarge Person. Note that since it's a Caster Level 20 scroll, the DC for crafting it would be 5 (base crafting DC) + 20 (Caster Level of the item) = 25, which while possible, a level 1 wizard would have a hard time making even if they had the 250gp for it.

However as a GM, in my games I institute a restriction of the players caster level for scrolls, wands, potions and the like. I imagine most other GMs would do so as well.

However, I do have to admit that overall ...

• A level 1 wizard can hit a DC 25 spellcraft check pretty reliably with an investment in the right 1st level spells and potentially a couple of 25 gp scrolls. An oracle can hit that target best at level 1 due to early access to Embrace Destiny, but with access to Fallback Strategy in addition to lucky number and unique access to ceremony Clerics are no slouch either. Pretty much any T1 or T2 character can hit a 25 spellcraft reliably at level 1 without using traits, and anyone can do it by sinking two traits into cash and then spending that cash on the right spells. Sep 29, 2019 at 21:42
• @thedarkwanderer I'm unaware of any level 1 spells besides crafter's fortune (which only applies to craft checks and not spellcraft checks) that would last long enough at level 1 to be in effect at the end of the whole 8/4 hour crafting session. Sep 29, 2019 at 21:48
• You can interrupt your crafting as much as you want, so long as the total time gets put in, and you just make a single check at the end. "This time is not spent in one continuous period, but rather during lunch, morning preparation, and during watches at night". Note that you do have to craft at half speed since you are using the interruptable crafting instead of normal, but that's not necessarily a big deal. Sep 29, 2019 at 22:14
• Ah true, half crafting speed would allow that. Sep 29, 2019 at 22:17

There're two parts to this. They're taken in the order that they appear in the question and have been restructured for increased clarity.

• "A magic item can be created without meeting its caster level by increasing the Spellcraft skill check DC needed to create the item."

Almost. Many of a magic item's prerequisites for its construction can be bypassed by increasing the Spellcraft skill check DC necessary to create the item by +5 per prerequisite bypassed. (See here: "The DC to create a magic item increases by 5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet.") Some prerequisites can't be bypassed, like the item creation feat necessary to create the magic item.

However, caster level is not typically a prerequisite at all for a magic item's creation. All magic items possess the entry Caster Level (or CL), but this is not a CL that's a prerequisite for their creation; it's only an indicator of their typical caster level. (See here, here, and here.) For instance, many ioun stones like the agate ellipsoid have as a prerequisite for their creation the entry Special creator must be 12th level, and it's this kind of caster level prerequisite that a Spellcraft skill check DC increased by +5 can bypass.

• "On Magic Item Creation, in part, says, 'A creator can create an item at a lower caster level than her own, but never lower than the minimum level needed to cast the needed spell.' Thus a wizard 5 can scribe a scroll of a 2nd-level spell at caster level 4, but could that wizard 5 scribe a scroll of a 2nd-level spell instead at caster level 20?

To scribe a scroll, that wizard prepares the spell that's to be triggered to create the scroll. Then that wizard, in the act of creating that scroll, triggers the spell (see here). Then there's this gap where magic happens, and a scroll is scribed! It's clear that the triggered spell is the spell on the newly scribed scroll. It seems a really safe assumption that the spell level is also the same as the triggered spell. But caster level? That can be anywhere from the caster level of the tiggered spell to the minimum caster level the caster needs to cast the triggered spell. (For example, a typical wizard 12 could trigger a fireball spell at any caster level from 5 through 12.)

Part of this issue may stem from the weird phrasing of this passage: "A creator can create an item at a lower caster level than her own, but never lower than the minimum level needed to cast the needed spell." This passage does not mean its partial inverse! That is, this passage does not mean that A creator can create an item at a higher caster level than her own. Instead, this passage means that A creator can't create an item at a higher caster level than her own (i.e. equal to or less than). And this reader totally agrees that this passage would've benefited from having been written that way! This chucks right out the window the idea of just picking an arbitrary (but affordable!) caster level for a magic item. That just isn't usually an option.

• Since pearls of power have a CL of 17 and you frequently encounter them at much lower levels, creating items with higher CL's seems possible so theres no upper bound so long as you pay for it. schlockmercenary.com/2006-01-29 last panel Oct 3, 2019 at 21:53
• @Fering Um. Except that a magic item creator can't create a magic item that possesses a caster level higher than the creator's own caster level. Oct 3, 2019 at 23:08