My question is about what happens when you get Permanent Shadow Points without a Bout of Madness.

In TOR you normally only get Permanent Shadow Points by becoming Miserable, rolling an Eye of Sauron, and thus suffering a Bout of Madness. This causes you to gain 1 Permanent Shadow Point and gain a Degeneration.

However, there are two other circumstances that I know of that can produce more Permanent Shadow Points:

  • In the Rivendell supplement there is a Fellowship Phase Undertaking called "There and Back Again." This causes you to gain 1 Permanent Shadow Point, but in return you get some hope back.
  • Characters who wish to gain the Shadow-Lore specialty from Saruman may study with him, but in return they gain 1 Permanent Shadow Point.

If you gain a Permanent Shadow Point in these circumstances, do you still gain a Degeneration? I can't find anything that firmly says if you do or do not.

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    – V2Blast
    Commented Nov 2, 2019 at 6:56

1 Answer 1


Degeneration only occurs with a Bout of Madness

From The One Ring (core rulebook) p226:


In addition to ‘resetting’ his Shadow score, every time a hero suffers a bout of madness he develops a Flaw, a negative Distinctive Feature.

The above does not say that Degeneration occurs "every time a hero gains a permanent shadow point" - the only trigger for Degeneration is the Bout of Madness


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