6
\$\begingroup\$

I am playing a cleric who has a persistent anti-magic field on him, from which he is excluded.

I use the following feats:

This means that if I approach something magical, the spell is suppressed in a range of 10-ft.-radius emanation, centred on me.

If I get close to a wizard that has Tren shape (page 87, Serpent Kingdoms) via Alter Self he momentarily loses the transformation because the spell is suppressed. In fact, the tren occupies a space of 5 ft. and falls within the range of the 10 ft anti-magic field.

But what happens if the magician has turned into a monster with Gargantuan size (15 feats) thanks to polymorph?

If I bull-rush him, should I consider the size it has without polymorph or vice versa?

If the size is that of Polymorph my charge would not reach the goal because my weapon does not have sufficient reach. Without polymorph, I will continue past the spell

\$\endgroup\$
  • \$\begingroup\$ Just to clarify you're using a spell slot that occupies a 12th spell level or a 14th spell level? \$\endgroup\$ – MichaelDorf Dec 2 at 18:05
  • \$\begingroup\$ @MichaelDorf No, I also use Divine Metamagic feat applied to Persistent Spell \$\endgroup\$ – HaveANiceDay Dec 2 at 18:12
  • \$\begingroup\$ Your last paragraph is unclear. Can you elaborate a bit on a situation? Do you make a regular attack at the end of your charge? Is polymorphed creature in the way, and would not be in the way of your charge be it smaller? \$\endgroup\$ – annoying imp Dec 2 at 19:53
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ @annoyingimp I try to explain my answer with this picture: i.imgur.com/jghDtAF.png what's the ending square of a charge? If Jozan want Bull Rush Mialee, should he consider the size of purple worm? d20srd.org/srd/monsters/purpleWorm.htm \$\endgroup\$ – HaveANiceDay 2 days ago
3
\$\begingroup\$

The 6th-level Sor/Wiz spell antimagic field [abjur] (Player's Handbook 200), in part, says, "Should a creature be larger than the area enclosed by the [antimagic] barrier, any part of it that lies outside the barrier is unaffected by the field." The Rules Compendium on Antimagic on Creatures expands this further saying, in part, that

A big creature whose space is partially within an antimagic area can choose to attack from a square not within the area, thereby suffering no adverse effects from the antimagic. Its attacks and abilities are affected by the antimagic if it attacks into the antimagic area or uses an ability on a foe within the antimagic area. (11 and emphasis mine)

(This text doesn't appear in the PH, Monster Manual, or Dungeon Master's Guide—and if it appeared in another text before the RC then this writer doesn't know which text. Thus its provenance may mean this rule doesn't apply in your campaign—see here and ask the DM.) Contrast that RC quotation above with the beginning of the Rules Compendium's next paragraph: "Summoned creatures of any type disappear if they enter an antimagic area. Incorporeal creatures do the same" (11). With these rules in mind, this answer takes what I expect will be a somewhat controversial position. (To be fair, though, I'm not sure there are any noncontroversial positions where antimagic is concerned.)

To summarize both the Rules Compendium and the Dungeon Master's Guide, a magic effect that affects an area is suppressed when its point of origin is in an area of antimagic. Further, a magic effect that affects an area sees its area correspondingly suppressed when that magic area overlaps with an area of antimagic. However, according to the RC, a magic effect that doesn't affect an area and that has as its subject that big creature seems to be unaffected when a big creature is only partially in an area of antimagic.

That's because a creature "can choose to attack from a square not within the area, thereby suffering no adverse effects from the antimagic." Since a big creature that's only partially in an area of antimagic can still use magic normally (except against parts of creatures in the area of antimagic), likewise it should be able to use its own magic against itself while partially in an area of antimagic. (An area of antimagic doesn't block line of effect, and a creature always has line of effect to itself.) Extending this even more, a magic effect present on a creature when it only partially enters an area of antimagic should not be suppressed.

Anyway, to sum up, unless a creature's entire space is enclosed in an area of antimagic, the creature's magic continues to function normally on itself, the creature can use magic normally on itself, and the creature can use magic normally to affect stuff outside the area of antimagic.

"That sounds a little fishy…"

Yeah, I know, and I also know that it may sound incredibly awkward. In practice, though, it seems at least better than the obvious alternatives. For example, this reading neatly answers the question of what happens when a were-giant squid gnome in giant squid form slides just 1 square of itself into an area of antimagic: pretty much nothing.

One alternative to this reading sees a were-giant squid gnome in giant squid form flicker infinitely and unresolvably between the assumed giant squid form and the original gnome form, the assumed form partially occupying the area of antimagic and the original form not. ("So, do we all just go play video games now or what?") Another alternative would have the DM determine which part of the giant squid from assumes original gnome form while the creature is partially in an area of antimagic. Neither alternative is playable. (Although I do credit this fine answer with ingeniously bypassing that first outcome!)

Further, this reading would have what happens to an incorporeal or summoned creature be distinct from what happens to other creatures. That is, a big creature—whether or not it's the subject of form-changing magic—is not wholly affected by an area of antimagic if it's only partially within an area of antimagic: both the DMG and the RC agree on that. Incorporeal creatures and summoned creatures are their own specific cases so those rules don't apply. (Big incorporeal or summoned creatures still wink out, though, because that's specifically what happens when "they enter the area of an antimagic effect" (DMG 290 and emphasis mine).)

Finally, just to be clear, when a creature's space is wholly engulfed by an area of antimagic, a creature's magic form-changing effect is suppressed: it resumes its original form, and it stays in that original form until at least one square of the original form's space is outside the area of antimagic—and if that happens the magic form-changing effect resumes if its duration permits.

"Who picks what squares a creature occupies when the creature's size category changes?"

The DM must answer that question; the game doesn't. (The DM may consider applying generally details from the description of the 1st-level Sor/Wiz spell enlarge person [trans] (PH 226–7), but even then the question's still, like, 98% unanswered.)

Usually, this reader would advocate that the creature who is changing size pick the legal squares it occupies, but that's typically because the creature is changing size voluntarily rather than have its size changed involuntarily. The size changer has no stake in an area of antimagic or another's dispel magic effect—it's just another hapless victim. That said, unless persuasive alternatives were put forth, this DM would likely let the dice decide the squares the creature occupies .

What happens using this reading when an attacker that's protected by an area of antimagic makes a bull rush attempt against a defender that's affected by a magic form-changing effect

If the attacker's area of antimagic does not completely engulf the defender's space, the defender's magic form-changing effect is unaffected and the attacker makes bull rush attempts against the defender while the defender's in the form it assumed using its magic form-changing effect.

If the attacker's area of antimagic completely engulfs the defender's space, the defender's magic form-changing effect is suppressed while the defender's space is engulfed and the attacker makes bull rush attempts against the defender while the defender's in its original form.

If the attacker is charging and the attacker's area of antimagic completely engulfs the defender's space, the defender's magic form-changing effect is suppressed. If the size of the form the defender assumed using its magic form-changing effect is different from the size of the defender's original form, the DM determines the squares the defender's original form occupies. It's possible for the typical attacker's charge to be spoiled by the defender becoming bigger or littler if, for example, the defender's location now requires the attacker to turn to complete the charge.

However, if the attacker is just moving, the suppression of the defender's magic form-changing effect doesn't affect the attacker's movement. The attacker can continue his movement and does so with knowledge of the changed battlefield conditions (e.g. the giant squid is now a gnome). For example, on his turn the attacker can take a move action to move 15 ft. so that his area of antimagic engulfs the defender, a giant squid, suppressing the giant squid's magic form-changing effect and returning it to its original form, a gnome. Then the DM determines where defender's original form appears among the squares once occupied by the assumed form. Afterward, the attacker can continue his move action and head toward that gnome. And, when the attacker's adjacent to that gnome, he can take a standard action to make a bull rush attempt against that pesky gnome.

Finally, if the attacker's successful bull rush moves the defender's space even partially out of the area of antimagic, the defender's magic form-changing effect resumes if its duration allows.


Note: Whether or not a creature that's protected by an antimagic field spell that's been modified by the Complete Arcane metamagic feat Persistent Spell (81) then further enhanced by the Complete Adventurer feat Extraordinary Spell Aim (109) is immune to magic as if the creature were itself actually in that antimagic field is beyond this question's scope. (Also see this question.) Nonetheless, bear in mind that an area of antimagic in D&D 3.5 does not block line of effect like it did prior to the 3.5 revision. Suffice it to say, this seems to work in the campaign you're in, so have fun, and try not to overshadow everyone else.

\$\endgroup\$
1
\$\begingroup\$

Technically, anti-magic field surpresses only the effect of a spell inside its area. For example, a fireball that explodes near an anti-magic field will simply not include the area of the anti-magic field. It specifically does not dispel the effect, but merely suppresses it inside the area. Another example that grants better scope is that a lightning bolt can travel through an anti-magic field, but simply will be suppressed in the area of the anti-magic field, but continuing on the far side (assuming sufficient range remaining).

Given that, and also given that summoned creatures are likewise not dispelled but wink in-and-out as they leave or enter the effect, I would rule that:

  1. The polymorphed monster does not exist inside the field, but still exists outside of it, but the creature remains polymorphed and otherwise keeps the polymorph statistics
  2. The subject of the polymorph can choose which square(s) its original form occupies
  3. If all of those squares are touched by the anti-magic field, the entire effect is suppressed returning the creature to its original stats until it leaves the anti-magic field (see item 1)

As an additional note, your cleric, being excluded from the area of anti-magic, is offered no protection from spells. Even something like magic missile will still hit since it will no longer be suppressed when it reaches you. Also, the larger polymorph-form creature would be able to attack you through the field, and interestingly could probably use the anti-magic field to overcome obstacles that might otherwise prevent it from reaching you, since the polymorph would reactivate in your square where it was attacking.

\$\endgroup\$
0
\$\begingroup\$

Wizard's new form disappears as soon as it overlaps with antimagic.

Magical effects usually disappear (are supressed) in antimagic. There is a paragraph, saying that spells may disappear partially - this section talks about area spells. There is also a clarification in Rules Compendium, that spells affecting part of a creature still exist on that creature.

But...

Area spells don't become meaningless, if there is a half of one of them. Haste spell or Divine Grace may exist on a half of a creature. But when there is a half of a purple worm, there is something wrong. The effect of a Polymorph spell has strictly defined boundaries. There just can't be a half (or aproximately three quarters in your case) of an effect. Effect of a Polymorph also can't "move back" to take up its space somewhere, where there is no antimagic or make something along this line.

Jozan will bull rush Mialee in her original form... most likely.

The first thing, past this point Moving out of this position provokes

Jozan provokes an Attack of Opportunity before he is able to overlap worm's space and field's area. Attack of Opportunity may potentially spoil the charge and therefore bull rush. In your case, Jozah isn't protected by Antimagic Field from attacks directed at him, since he effectively isn't in an area of antimagic himself. So Mialee makes this attack as a purple worm with all its abilities and statistics.

If mentioned AoO doesn't stop Jozan's charge, then the area and the space overlap, effect of a Polymorph disappear, and Mialee appear somewhere in the centre (presumably) of worm's former space. As Jozan charges approximately towards that centre, I see no reason original Mialee not becoming "new" target of a charge if Jozah has enough speed left.


  • Your 10' radius emanation centered on you is wrong. It may look like that on an image in the answer, if you assume it is better to let effects similar to AMF to extend from every corner of creature's space. Or it would be smaller a bit (but same shape) if a caster should choose a single corner, as RAW seemingly suggests. If you are interested, we have a Q/A on this topic.
  • It is impossible for a regular wizard to polymorph into a purple worm (16 HD creature vs 15 HD limit of the spell). Not if it is too relevant - I have no doubt you may find another Gargantuan creature, whose HD would fall into spell's limit. Much more relevant is the fact, that it is highly unlikely (possible under some readings, but unlikely) that a Medium creature may be made Gargantuan by means of Polymorph, which to me inherients Alter Self's limit "the new form must be within one size category of your normal size."
\$\endgroup\$
  • \$\begingroup\$ What I struggle with is this: Using this reading, if Mialee's magic form-changing effect ends due to Jozan's area of antimagic, it seems like Mialee could—depending on the table's rules about where original-form Mialee ends up—see the magic form-changing effect reactivate immediately so that it doesn't overlap with Jozan's area of antimagic. Is that accurate? I mean, that seems like a lot for the DM to adjudicate (not that there isn't already where antimagic is concerned!). \$\endgroup\$ – Hey I Can Chan 2 days ago
  • \$\begingroup\$ (In fact, I can imagine a wacky chase wherein Jozan suppresses Mialee's magic form-changing effect and she assumes her original form beyond the area of antimagic. Then the magic form-changing effect resumes so she opts to put the rest of her new squares behind her. Jozan approaches her again only to see her form-changing effect slide her away again. What zaniness! What high jnks!) \$\endgroup\$ – Hey I Can Chan 2 days ago
  • \$\begingroup\$ @HeyICanChan I think form-changing effect can't resume at least until Mialee moves and "carries" her suppressed form-changing effect away from the spot where it "rests". \$\endgroup\$ – annoying imp yesterday
  • \$\begingroup\$ Huh. Do Mialee's continuous magic items function? Or are they rendered as nonfunctional as her magic form-changing effect because she was attending all of her gear when the area of antimagic overlapped the space occupied by her magic form-changing effect? \$\endgroup\$ – Hey I Can Chan yesterday
  • \$\begingroup\$ @HeyICanChan From the first glance it seems equipped items still function, melded items remain melded and unavailable (similar to those in a bag of holding inside an AMF). \$\endgroup\$ – annoying imp yesterday

Your Answer

By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.