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I've been mulling over a dream character for some time now. I like to play with Pathfinder as the base with 3.5 material available to be converted for use.

Enter the Convert Spell to Power Erudite. Lots of great things that can happen here. Say we make it to Epic levels and acquire Astral Projection. Say we also become a Mindborn, essentially a Psionic lich with a specially modified Psicrystal as the phylactery. A Mindborn however is Incorporeal and therefore lacks a physical body, does Astral Projection fail to create a new body then? Or does it extend an additional Incorporeal consciousness into the planes with a silver chord coming out the back of its head... Should it choose to have one?

TLDR: Can an Incorporeal creature cast Astral Projection?

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  • \$\begingroup\$ Thanks! Updated the tags. It pertains to both because I'm using the Pathfinder version of Astral Projection and interpretation of rules. In this case the only relevant part of the 3.5 material is the Incorporeal creature and possibly it's other aspects. \$\endgroup\$
    – Aleph
    Commented Dec 31, 2019 at 5:58
  • \$\begingroup\$ That makes more sense. I figured it was about PF 1e rules + D&D 3.5e content (and not PF 2e or PF Society), but we have a policy of not guessing. Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance. :) \$\endgroup\$
    – V2Blast
    Commented Dec 31, 2019 at 5:58
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    \$\begingroup\$ I edited your links back into your body. There's no need to notate edits on this site. \$\endgroup\$
    – Ifusaso 'he-him'
    Commented Dec 31, 2019 at 19:43
  • \$\begingroup\$ Since you are not Undead this spell will not work, but I don't know if a similar spell could exist (you might be able to create one) or your DM could rule you could benefit from it, the Spell Daywalker can give you a fake physical body, since you're a special case. However I would rule that if your fake body is destroyed you'd still die. \$\endgroup\$
    – Maxpire
    Commented Jan 25, 2020 at 16:28
  • \$\begingroup\$ I actually found an updated version in one of the Psionics Augmented books from Dreamscarred press who wrote it originally. They updated the assume likeness ability to make you corporeal when you assume a likeness. So now that I can have a corporeal form whenever I want... Even better, I don't have to use my Psicrystal as the pseudo phylactery so no extra feats for extra Psicrystals required. \$\endgroup\$
    – Aleph
    Commented Jan 25, 2020 at 17:31

1 Answer 1

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You can't benefit from the spell Astral Projection without a physical body

The term ''physical body'' is used 5 times in the description

By freeing your spirit from your physical body, this spell allows you to project an astral body onto another plane altogether.

Since you don't have a physical body, this spell cannot be used on you.

We could argue that you only need ''freeing of your spirit from your physical body'' for it to work.

But this part makes it clear for me that it can't work:

While you are on the Astral Plane, your astral body is connected at all times to your physical body by a silvery cord.

The silvery cord needs to be attached to a physical body.

Sidenotes:

From Mindborn:

(...)At the end of the procedure, her body disappears — dematerialized and absorbed into the psicrystal (...)

Perhaps the silvery cord could be attached to the psicrystal instead maybe since your body is supposed to be in it.

There are probably some ways for you to borrow/have a physical body if you really need one to use Astral projection if the DM rules out the silvery cord being attached to the psicristal. (it could be another question on its own).

This Question:Must the body remain on the Material Plane during astral projection? Might give you some other details.

I'm copying a part of @Hey I Can Chan's comment because I believe his opinion was very useful.

The majority of rules are written assuming that all creatures—especially PCs—are corporeal, air-breathing, food-eating, diurnal, I-only-have-2-hands humanoids. If a creature isn't, the GM must occasionally adjust the rules to accommodate that "nonstandard" creature. That's why I totally agree that a high-level ghost wizard should technically see its astral projection spells fail, but also why an individual GM may rule that it doesn't.

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    \$\begingroup\$ I think this is technically correct, but I also think the spell's designer (or, if preferred, updater as the spell astral projection is a legacy spell from, like, '77) didn't need to consider the possibility of incorporeal creatures casting it because the spell originally appears in the PH, and PCs, by default, aren't, y'know, incorporeal. (This is, I assume, the same reason that there aren't weapons requiring three or more hands (or tentacles or tongues) worth of effort.) I already +1ed, but the answer may still want to consider this angle. \$\endgroup\$
    – Hey I Can Chan
    Commented Jan 1, 2020 at 14:37
  • \$\begingroup\$ Yeah I wasn't sure about that bit too, I don't know where to look can you help? \$\endgroup\$
    – Maxpire
    Commented Jan 1, 2020 at 14:55
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    \$\begingroup\$ It's not really a matter of looking but, instead, my general impression of the game's assumptions. That is, it seems—to me, at least—that the majority of rules are written assuming that all creatures—especially PCs—are corporeal, air-breathing, food-eating, diurnal, I-only-have-2-hands humanoids. If a creature isn't, the GM must occasionally adjust the rules to accommodate that "nonstandard" creature. That's why I totally agree that a high-level ghost wizard should technically see its astral projection spells fail, but also why an individual GM may rule that it doesn't. \$\endgroup\$
    – Hey I Can Chan
    Commented Jan 1, 2020 at 15:32
  • \$\begingroup\$ It's always fine to downvote, but at least contribute please! suggest edits or you can write your own answer as it is automatically suggested when you downvote. I know you can pretty much do anything in 3.5 (pun pun etc.) but I believe my answer was fair, the DM is God anyways so he decides, I think it's fair that the spell will work on another plane than material, and we shouldn't interpret too much what is written in the spell description, but it's a guideline... the rest is opinion, so the DM has to decide, 2 different answers are acceptable, 2 different point of view is valid,better or not \$\endgroup\$
    – Maxpire
    Commented Jan 9, 2020 at 7:32
  • \$\begingroup\$ Added a part of Hey I can Chan's comment to include DMs that would rule it otherwise. \$\endgroup\$
    – Maxpire
    Commented Jan 9, 2020 at 7:36

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