As per Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Mythic Adventures, a level 19 bard has 2 tiers in his Mythic path.
This bard took the Mythic feat Mythic Spell Lore

Benefit: You can learn a number of mythic spells equal to your tier and can expend mythic power when casting them to enhance the results. To select a mythic spell, you must be able to cast the non-mythic version or have it on your list of spells known. Every time you gain a new tier, you can select an additional mythic spell.

This bard also has has the metamagic feat Empower Spell

Benefit: All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by half including bonuses to those dice rolls. Saving throws and opposed rolls are not affected, nor are spells without random variables.

May he use the feat Empower Spell, on his Mythic Cure Critical Wounds ?


The damage cured increases to 8d8 points of damage + 2 points per caster level (maximum +40). The spell cures up to 4 points of ability damage if the target is a living creature. The target chooses what types of ability damage are cured.

If he can, how would you calculate the damage healed ?

What led me to this questions is the page on Mythic feats, especially this part :

Mythic and Metamagic Feats

You’ll notice there are no mythic metamagic feats. Because mythic versions of spells are, in a way, metamagic of their own, and there are many mythic abilities that empower such spellcasting, there is no need for mythic metamagic feats. If you desire more potent spellcasting power, select the Mythic Spell Lore feat multiple times.

If I follow this line of thoughts, would that mean that adding metamagic to a Mythic spell, be like adding metamagic to a spell with another metamagic effect ?


2 Answers 2



If we look at the rules for Mythic Spells, they say:

Casting Mythic Spells: If you know the mythic version of a spell, any time you cast the spell, you may expend one use of mythic power to convert the spell into its mythic version as you cast it. This doesn't change the level of the spell slot you use to cast the spell.

A mythic spell is still a spell, it just has different effects that the spell normally does. Therefore you can still apply metamagic to it just as you would with a normal spell, adjusting your spell level as the applied metamagic feat(s) dictate(s).

Furthermore, to lend more evidence of this being the case, the section continues:

If you're a caster who prepares spells (such as a cleric or wizard), you never have to prepare the mythic version of a spellif you prepare the non-mythic version, you may cast it as the mythic version by expending one use of mythic power. Unless otherwise specified, casting the mythic version of a spell doesn't take any longer than casting the non-mythic version.

It would be quite odd for a wizard who prepared an empowered fireball, to spend a mythic point and suddenly only have a mythic fireball that still takes up the 5th level slot you prepared the spell in originally, instead of an empowered mythic fireball.

Finally, there's the Ascendant Spell metamagic:

You can modify a spell to imitate the mythic version of that spell. An ascendant spell uses the mythic version of the spell, but doesn’t count as a mythic spell for the purposes of effects that interact with the spell, unless you are a mythic creature. You can’t use the augmented version of the mythic spell, or use spells effects that require you to expend uses of mythic power (even if you have uses of mythic power available).

While this can be written off as a case of specific over general, it would be quite odd for a metamagic feat to be able to make a spell mythic, if mythic spells cannot have metamagic feats applied.

  • \$\begingroup\$ If I understand you correctly, the bard can use the feat Empower Spell, on his Mythic Cure Critical Wounds. Also, the amount of damage healed, would be : 8D8 * 1,5 +38. Does that seem correct ? \$\endgroup\$
    – Binochio
    Jan 5, 2020 at 16:05
  • \$\begingroup\$ (8d8+38)*1.5 "All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by half including bonuses to those dice rolls." \$\endgroup\$ Jan 5, 2020 at 16:23
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ @Binochio again, that's because the bonus to the spell matters more than the dice in this case. Consider the humble fireball, at level 5 it deals 5d6 damage, on average this is 17.5 (5*3.5) damage, at most it's 30 damage. This means that a maximize will increase it's damage by 12.5 points, an empower will only increase its damage by 8.75 points on average. Let's add in a static bonus per die rolled though (say the orc bloodline arcana), it now deals 5 more points of damage, but maximize still only increases it's damage by 12.5 points whereas empower now increases it by 11.25 points on average. \$\endgroup\$
    – willuwontu
    Jan 5, 2020 at 21:52
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ At this point maximize still deals more damage than empowered does on average (although empowered deals more potentially). Let's add in another bonus per die rolled (say the blood havoc mutation), the fireball now deals 5d6+10 damage, 27.5 damage on average, 40 damage at most. Mazimize still only increases it by 12.5 points of damage, but empower now increases it by 13.75 (27.5*.5) points of damage. So maximize is better for spells with lower bonuses to rolls, while empower is better the higher the bonus to the rolls are. \$\endgroup\$
    – willuwontu
    Jan 5, 2020 at 21:52
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ Since Mythic Cure Critical Wounds has such a high bonus, empower spell is better for it than maximize spell is. \$\endgroup\$
    – willuwontu
    Jan 5, 2020 at 21:52

Absolutely not. "if you prepare the non-mythic version, you may cast it as the mythic version by expending one use of mythic power" "An ascendant spell uses the mythic version of the spell but doesn’t count as a mythic spell" meaning that it is in fact a "different version" of metamagic you would need to modify the different version of the spell. Note: "You’ll notice there are no mythic metamagic feats."

Mythic spells are not regular spells and can NOT be modified with non mythic metamagic.

  • 3
    \$\begingroup\$ Can you connect the dots between Ascendent spell offering mostly-mythic spells and mythic spells needing "a 'different version' of metamagic"? Or, how there not being mythic metamagic feats translates into "mythic and metamagic don't mix"? Or, how a wizard who prepared a quickened fireball and decides to Mythic it at casting suddenly no longer has it quickened? \$\endgroup\$
    – minnmass
    Mar 13, 2021 at 7:41
  • \$\begingroup\$ Ascendant spell would add 5 levels (leaving very little room for metamagic to most spells) and make it a non-mythis spell but the feat makes it have the mythic effect. You could modify something with ascendant, and then further with other metamagic because it's not actually a mythic spell even though it does have that effect. Provided the spell is 3rd level or lower. If a wizard prepares a spell and uses a higher level slot to use meta, he should probably pick a spell at tghe correct level to make mythic. \$\endgroup\$ Mar 16, 2021 at 0:36
  • \$\begingroup\$ But, Ascendant Spell explicitly doesn't make it a mythic effect, so I don't see how it speaks to whether an actual mythic spell could be affected by metamagic. That also doesn't address why a wizard who has prepared a Quickened Mudball or Acid Pit and opts for the Mythic version would suddenly need a full standard action to cast it. \$\endgroup\$
    – minnmass
    Mar 16, 2021 at 1:11

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