# Which 4e monster books used the new monster math?

After Monster Manual 3, 4e had new monster math that updated the game. However, there are a number of other books with monsters, including in things like Dragon magazine, where I can't tell if it's using the updated math or not.

What books or supplements use the post-MM3 math? Is there a list somewhere? Is there some way to figure it out?

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– V2Blast
Jan 28, 2020 at 20:34

## Monster Vault and Monster Vault: Threats to the Nentir Vale.

The slightly longer answer is that the Monster Manual 3 was published in late June of 2010 and those are the only monster books published later than it.

The much longer answer is that there's a common formula used from Monster Manual 3 onward (with some slight variations for flavor) that you can check any random magazine/incidental monster stat blocks against to see if they're using the formula. There's a base formula most monsters will use (courtesy Blog of Holding):

$$\begin{array} {|r|r|}\hline Statistic & AC & Fort/Ref/Will & To Hit & Avg. DMG \\ \hline Lv. 0 & 14 & 12 & +5 & 8 \\ \hline per level & +1 & +1 & +1 & +1 \\ \hline \end{array}$$

and a further variation based on monster type:

$$\begin{array} {|r|r|}\hline Role & Skirmisher & Controller & Soldier & Brute & Artillery & Lurker \\ \hline HP Lv. 0 & 24 & 24 & 24 & 26 & 21 & 21 \\ \hline per level & +8 & +8 & +8 & +10 & +6 & +6 \\ \hline AC & +0 & +0 & +2 & -2 & -2 & +0 \\ \hline \end{array}$$

Brutes deal +25% damage, multitarget attacks deal -25% damage, encounter powers deal +25-50% damage.

Minions only have 1 hp and do half damage, elites have double HP, solos have quadruple HP.

Most monsters made with pre-MM3 math will have higher than expected HP and do lower than expected damage.