I've recently noticed a key line in the text of Alter Reality.

The deity can render a magical or supernatural effect permanent.

It seems obvious to me that this should allow for a non-Pun Pun method of attaining an arbitrarily high amount of points in each ability score, but none come to me.

My first idea was to exploit Epic Spellcasting's Fortify seed and give myself a +5 bonus of every type that I can think of, but I have stacking concerns and this does not meet my "arbitrarily high" criterion. What other options are there?


Alter Reality is not particularly useful for this

There are lots of ways to get arbitrarily high stats. For example, the Fortify Seed indeed enables arbitrarily-high stats on its own, given sufficient time (i.e. equally large amounts of time, or time abuse). Manipulate Form is merely one method among many on that count, though it is particularly useful in that it gives you as much as you want of everything.

Alter Reality can be used in combos for this

For example, Alter Reality can be used to make the Caster Level increases from Death Knell-- which are essentially unbounded except via duration on account of self-stacking-- permanent. This very large (or arbitrarily large if we can produce creatures to slay, e.g. via pudding farming) increase in effective CL could then be converted into a stat with any spell that grants a caster-level dependent increase to said stat.

Permanent spells won't stack with themselves if they wouldn't normally, so you need effects that can stack with themselves to get arbitrarily large gains out of Alter Reality.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ Thanks, I can now see my mistake. I wrongly assumed that the benefits from non-inherent bonuses were also capped at +5, despite there being a long list of magic items that contradict that assumption. With that knowledge alone, you're quite right to say that the job is already done. Simply use the Fortify seed for an arbitrarily high non-inherent bonus to your stats, and use Alter Reality to make it permanent. \$\endgroup\$ – J. Mini Feb 6 at 20:17
  • \$\begingroup\$ I'll have to check the rulings on how Death Knell stacks with itself, but you can probably cut out the middleman on creating things to kill - Alter Reality is already capable of making living things. \$\endgroup\$ – J. Mini Feb 6 at 20:22
  1. You could Keep the Idea you had and just make your stats higher.
  2. Permanently raise the stats of someone in your party.
  3. Insta kill one enemy
  4. Fully heal a fallen ally
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  • \$\begingroup\$ An accompanying description explaining these options would really help this answer a great deal. \$\endgroup\$ – Pyrotechnical Feb 6 at 20:49

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