For optimized Clerics, Extend Spell, Persist Spell, and Divine Metamagic: Persist are often as good as class features. However, a not too rare house rule is to ban Divine Metamagic (due to its extreme power). I've never been in such a game, but it seems obvious to me that this house rule will have major consequences for what Cleric builds are viable. For example, it potentially frees up three feats for you to take. I would like to know more about this. What changes are typically made to Cleric builds when Divine Metamagic is banned?

Note: I'm not asking for Theoretical Optimization builds. After all, if a DM is going to ban Divine Metamagic, then any Theoretical Optimization builds are likely to get hit by Rule 0. Given how common I suspect this house rule to be, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a handbook for it.

  • \$\begingroup\$ I don't know what DMM is, off hand. \$\endgroup\$
    – goodguy5
    Commented Mar 4, 2020 at 15:19
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ Divine Metamagic -- lets you trade turn undead attempts for metamagic level slots \$\endgroup\$
    – Erik
    Commented Mar 4, 2020 at 15:20
  • \$\begingroup\$ I did know what DMM is, but I don't know what TO is. : ) \$\endgroup\$
    – Dan B
    Commented Mar 4, 2020 at 15:21
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    \$\begingroup\$ It's generally accepted practice when using acronyms to type them out and parenthesize the acronym at least once when writing to avoid that confusion. Such as - "...and Divine Metamagic (DMM)..." \$\endgroup\$
    – JohnP
    Commented Mar 4, 2020 at 15:28
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    \$\begingroup\$ I’d caution that only contexts assuming fairly-heavy optimization are going to treat Divine Metamagic with Persist Spell “as good as class features”—that isn’t really the norm. I can’t think of too many questions here that have done so, for example, nor can I think of too many char-building questions who have been answered with it. So “most” is a strong overstatement here, and likely the source of the downvotes on this question. \$\endgroup\$
    – KRyan
    Commented Mar 4, 2020 at 20:33

1 Answer 1


It becomes harder to run a cleric as an outright fighter replacement—the need to buff before becoming an effective combatant is massive. When you can prepare ahead of time, you’re fine, but when you cannot, you’re better off not bothering with the whole fighter thing.

But that doesn’t really matter that much, because “the whole fighter thing” isn’t that important. Also, it becomes “harder,” not “impossible.” The cleric’s true strength is in their spellcasting, and while the buffs on the cleric spell list are amazing—and therefore benefit highly from “free” Persist Spell—that’s hardly the only thing clerics have going for them. Really, one of the most important things that clerics—all spellcasters—have going for them is that they have so many options. Pigeonholing the cleric into “fighter replacement” isn’t doing the class justice.

The cleric remains, as it has always been, a clear example of a Tier-1 class.


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