I am playing a Spellthief/Rogue and just picked up the Martial Study feat to gain access to Shadow Hand maneuvers. Shadow Hand is a Swordsage-exclusive school and its maneuvers key off Wisdom for their save DCs, but as a Spellthief, I boosted my Charisma and my Wisdom is pretty low.

Is there any way to change my Shadow Hand maneuver's save DCs to key off Charisma instead of Wisdom?

  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ The question title doesn't seem to match up too much with the contents. The title is very general but the contents are extremely specific. Your final sentence could almost replace your title. \$\endgroup\$
    – J. Mini
    Commented Mar 9, 2020 at 23:33
  • \$\begingroup\$ @J.Mini Fixed easily enough. \$\endgroup\$
    – KRyan
    Commented Mar 9, 2020 at 23:46

1 Answer 1


Unfortunately, no, there isn’t.

Tome of Battle was one of the last books published for 3.5e, and saw very little support outside of itself1—and it doesn’t include any such option itself.2

And, for the record, there isn’t really any way to make a Wisdom-based spellthief, either. Not that it would help you, but just so you know.

The best solution is just to avoid the maneuvers with saving throw DCs. Cloak of deception, shadow jaunt, shadow stride, and shadow blink are definitely the best Shadow Hand maneuvers anyway. Plenty of the others rely on attack rolls, not saving throws, and those are usually better (attacking is usually more reliable than forcing saves, unless you have vastly higher Charisma than a typical spellthief).

But, for what it’s worth, personally I would have no problem letting you just treat your maneuver DCs as being Charisma-based. Would just let you have that, for free. Maybe ask your DM if you could.

  1. Monster Manual V and Dragons of Eberron are the only books I know of that mention it.

  2. I can’t prove a negative, but I know the book very well—for instance, I can, off the top of my head, tell you the page number for each class’s table, many of the feats, and the beginning of the maneuvers list.


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