Can a creature under the effect of a Discord Symbol perform verbal spell components?

Question

Symbol (PHB, pg. 280) allows you to create a magical glyph that triggers on a condition you determine. One of the glyphs you can create is called Discord:

Each target must make a Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, a target bickers and argues with other creatures for 1 minute. During this time, it is incapable of meaningful communication and has disadvantage on attack rolls and ability checks.

Is a creature who fails the save against this effect capable of performing verbal spell components?

Note, ambitious answers will consider the situation where there are creatures to bicker with, as well as when the effected creature is alone.

Answer 1

Yes; casting is not communication

Many if not most spell text blocks follow the pattern of first description, then proscription. That is, first a narrative expression of the spell, then what effect it has on the rules. For a symbol of discord, the description is "a target bickers and argues with other creatures", while the proscription is "it is incapable of meaningful communication and has disadvantage on attack rolls and ability checks".

Discord penalizes attacks and ability checks, but no mention is made of its effects on spells (in contrast to, for example, the Silence spell). I am taking as given that verbal spell-casting is not affected, specifically because the principle of "spells do what they say they do"; it does not say that verbal spellcasting is affected, so it is not. I am attempting to justify this assumption post-hoc, rather than arguing whether verbal spellcasting should be allowed, as other answers may be.

So, if the target is prevented from meaningful 'communication', why is spellcasting permitted? Because spellcasting is not communication. Communication has an intelligent recipient. The spell says that the target bickers and argues with other creatures. Verbal spellcasting remains functional because it does not have an intended listener; it does not have a creature as its recipient. The caster is still fully able to use verbal components (cf.), to "produce particular combination of sounds, with specific pitch and resonance". What they are now unable to do is produce an intelligible message for a specific listener, including modulating that message - facing them, enunciating, gesturing, coding, and all the other components of communication.

For a deeper narrative description of what this is like, consider the eponymous Discord herself, the Greek goddess Eris. She causes strife by setting people at odds, to 'bicker and argue' amongst themselves. She foments interpersonal conflict, not impediments to speech.

One interesting effect of this interpretation is on spells that grant control over other creatures. A creature under the effect of Discord would still be able to cast suggestion, command, or similar spells - but their target would be unable to understand any instructions given to them, due to the power of the Discord to prohibit meaningful communication.

As a specific real-world example of how this phenomenon might work, albeit in the listener, and not the speaker, consider Songs of Praise and Songs of Praise 2. In these videos there is unaltered sound of choral music but with incorrect subtitles. Watching the subtitles predisposes you to hear the sounds differently than they are actually produced - the sounds themselves (required for V casting) are unchanged, while the meaning is incomprehensible because the part of your brain that creates meaning from sound has been hacked.

Answer 2

Symbol of Discord does not prevent verbal components

The previous answers have given arguments for why it would prevent verbal components and are a totally reasonable way for a DM to run the spell.

It seems unlikely that this was the intended way for this spell to work, however, because DnD generally tries to be explicit about a spell's effects. If the symbol of discord was intended to prevent verbal components I would expect it to read something like this:

Each target must make a Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, a target bickers and argues with other creatures for 1 minute. During this time, it is incapable of meaningful communication, cannot perform the verbal components to cast a spell, and has disadvantage on attack rolls and ability checks.

Instead it only explicitly prevents meaningful communication and disadvantages attack rolls and ability checks.

Bickering takes place between two or more people. If a person was affected by Discord but was alone then they clearly would be able to produce verbal components.

Furthermore Bickering does not require constant speech. During an argument there can be pauses in speech. While the other party member is complaining about how the caster didn't scrub the pot properly the caster can perform the verbal components of the spell.

There can be nonverbal forms of bickering: The caster flips off the fighter while chanting a mystic incantation.

Since the verbal components of a spell are not "meaningful communication" (you aren't passing along information to another creature) they can be performed freely so long as the character can still be said to be arguing.

Basically arguing is like a long rest in that it is not interrupted by short instances of spell casting.

Answer 3

Probably not

Verbal components are described like this:

Most spells require the chanting of mystic words. The words themselves aren't the source of the spell's power; rather, the particular combination of sounds, with specific pitch and resonance, sets the threads of magic in motion. Thus, a character who is gagged or in an area of silence, such as one created by the silence spell, can't cast a spell with a verbal component.

So the Symbol does not in fact create an area of silence, nor does it gag the character. The remaining question is, whether you consider the verbal spell components to be a form of "meaningfull communication". This is of course not explicitly stated in the rules and so leaves a bit of room for opinion.

In my opinion, being incapable of meaningful communication means, among other things, that the speaker is not totally free to choose what comes out of their mouth—otherwise they could just choose to say something meaningful, obviously. And without this freedom of speech (not that freedom of speech), they cannot reasonably provide the verbal component, which has to be carefully chosen and in its purpose meaningful.

To address the case of only one target affected alone, the mechanical effects of

it is incapable of meaningful communication and has disadvantage on attack rolls and ability checks

should still take place, thus still preventing the target from providing verbal components for their spells. Narratively, it could perhaps be presented as either talking angrily to themselves or even as a split personality.

Answer 4

They should not be, though of course it's up to the DM

Verbal components are described as this:

Most spells require the chanting of mystic words. The words themselves aren't the source of the spell's power; rather, the particular combination of sounds, with specific pitch and resonance, sets the threads of magic in motion. Thus, a character who is gagged or in an area of silence, such as one created by the silence spell, can't cast a spell with a verbal component.

Now, when we look at discord, there are two key points that I see that seem to confirm to me that verbal components would be impossible to perform

The first thing to look at is why you are unable to perform meaningful conversation:

a target bickers and argues with other creatures for 1 minute

So, you are reduced to bickering and arguing with other creatures for a minute. Considering the time needed to cast a spell, if you needed to perform a verbal component then you couldn't be arguing and bickering with others while casting that spell, and the words and sounds needed to cast the spell probably aren't random lines in a nonsensical argument.

The second thing to look at is the words "Meaningful Conversation". While this does specify conversation, conversation consists of the words that you speak that are simply directed at another person, and the words needed for a verbal component are very specific and meaningful words, they just aren't directed at a person. As such, it only makes sense that if you can't speak those specific magical words to another person, you aren't going to be speaking them at all.

While none of this is necessarily an explanation supported by the RAW of the spell, it is not denied by it either. As such, it seems clear that with how the spell is intended to work, A creature can not reasonably cast a spell using a verbal component while under the effects of 'Discord'

Answer 5

Yes, however...

Symbol is a powerful 7th level spell capable of causing massive damage, fear, and various forms of complete incapacitation.

Discord appears to model the trope of heroes being magically compelled to fight among themselves. They are not prevented from attacking, and the spell only restricts their speech to bickering rather than communication; it does not limit verbalization generally, and so does not prevent spellcasting.

Unfortunately, between editions of the game, the spirit of the spell hasn't translated. The description no longer suggests allies attack one another; this may be due to 5th Edition's considerably reduced focus on character alignment.

As a result, there is no circumstance where a Discord symbol would be preferable to a Pain symbol, which uses the same Constitution Saving Throw but for greater effect - total incapacitation.