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Consider Dwarven Weapon Familiarity.

A dwarf that takes it becomes trained in the battleaxe, pick and warhammer. Also from this feat:

You also gain access to all uncommon dwarf weapons. For the purpose of determining your proficiency, martial dwarf weapons are simple weapons and advanced dwarf weapons are martial weapons.

Does this part include the weapons that don't have the Dwarf trait, but are mentioned above? Or does it only apply to the clan dagger and Dwarven war axe?

If it only applies to weapons with the respective ancestry's trait, then it seems like certain ancestries have been stiffed by this. The hobgoblin equivalent of this feat, for example, mentions martial hobgoblin weapons being treated as simple, etc. But there aren't any weapons with the hobgoblin trait, meaning the feat is currently useless (aside from giving the appropriate training in the listed weapons).

tl;dr are the weapons mentioned in the first part of the feat, which don't have an ancestry trait, included in the second part of the feat, such that the category is treated as lower (advanced -> martial, martial -> simple) for a character with the feat?

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  • \$\begingroup\$ think this is a case of some racial feats being template-ed onto new races without support or consideration, however if they do add some hobgoblin weapons in the future the feat will suddenly become useful \$\endgroup\$ – CaptianObvious Jan 21 at 14:17
  • \$\begingroup\$ Just seems very odd to me that they introduced hobgoblins, but not hobgoblin weapons at the same time. I understand the argument of leaving leeway for hobgoblin weapons in the future, but I don't understand the logic behind omitting hobgoblin weapons when other ancestries (Tengu, catfolk) got equivalent feats and weapons with which to use those feats. \$\endgroup\$ – Ben R. Jan 21 at 14:44
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Only those with an ancestry trait

Since the feat doesn't explicitly say that the first listed weapons (i.e. the battleaxe, pick, and warhammer) are Dwarf weapons, then there is no RAW reason to assume they are Dwarf weapons. So only those with the appropriate ancestry trait are reduced from Advanced->Martial or Martial->Simple (for purposes of proficiency; see this question). That does make that specific aspect of the Hobgoblin Weapon Familiarity feat currently useless, but that feat gives training in a lot of useful martial weapons, so I wouldn't say that the feat itself is useless. With feats like Hobgoblin Weapon Expertise (which, like other feats of its kind, increases the proficiency with the all the weapons mentioned in Hobgoblin Weapon Familiarity, not just the ones with the ancestry trait), you could have your Hobgoblin Wizard shooting a longbow with minimal investment!

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    \$\begingroup\$ It may be worth noting that the (oddly high leveled) Expertise feats (eg Dwarven Weapon Expertise) specifically call out the weapons plus [Dwarf] weapons as well. \$\endgroup\$ – Ifusaso Jan 21 at 18:02
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Ifusaso good idea; I added more clarification along those lines. \$\endgroup\$ – ESCE Jan 21 at 18:19

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